I am new to Home Assistant but a VERY long-time home automation nut. I have been using HomeSeer since 1999 and am currently on HS4. I have a massive Insteon installation with 120+ Insteon devices and all interconnected using Insteon links and Insteon Groups/Scenes. The 3rd party HS4 plugin written by Mark Sandler (MNS Insteon Software Plugin for HS4) is very mature, intuitive, feature rich and very user friendly.
I am able to provision or re-provision new or existing powerline powered devices using just the Insteon Address. I do not need to push any set buttons or touch the device at all. The device types and capabilities are automatically picked up by the Insteon plugin when it interrogates the Insteon device address as the device is provisioned. I can then add links to the device to make it act as an Insteon controller or responder. I am also able to create Insteon Groups/Scenes and define how what Insteon devices I want to participate in that group and how I want it to respond to the group command as well as defining what device controls the group (beyond HomeSeer directly).
If I want to migrate to Home Assistant and run my Serial Based PLM (2413S) directly from Home Assistant, can I retain all that functionality? Is the Home Assistant Insteon Integration able to provide this level of functionality? Before I commit to migrating to Home Assistant I need to make sure that I will not lose what I have. Many of these Insteon devices are embedded in walls and hidden in inaccessible areas so any need to press a button is a deal breaker.
I have also read about Insteon2MQTT, is this a reliable way of running Insteon that Home Assistant can work with?
Finally, if the Insteon options outside of HomeSeer HS4 are not going to offer the same functionality, would leaving all my HomeSeer Insteon in place and having some sort of communication between Home Assistant and HomeSeer that updated Insteon status and executed Insteon commands be possible?
Ideally I would love to have everything moved piece by piece over to Home Assistant natively. I own a second serial PLM and could just move items over one at a time as a new device on a new install from HomeSeer to Home Assistant. I would factory reset the Insteon device over the air (or powerline) and then add it as a new device to Home Assistant. I just need to know that I will not lose the functionality:
Being able to add or re-add a line powered Insteon device with just its Insteon address and not need to go press a set button
Be able to manage Insteon groups/scenes such that any Insteon device can be a part of any Insteon group/scene and control how it behaves in that Insteon group/scene as well as set a specific device to trigger that Insteon group/scene
Be able to add links to an Insteon device's configuration to act as a controller or as a responder to another Insteon device such that Home Assistant does not even need to be involved after the device is programmed.
Thanks for any help and expertise you can provide. This is a huge step and big undertaking for me. I just need to know what I am getting into and what others with Insteon have done when it comes to Home Assistant.
Unfortunate you have not received a response after this time. Have you learned more or made any decisions? I have around 50 devices and want to move from my old as dirt ISY994i using Home Assistant, to a direct connect from my Insteon serial PLM to HA. Was looking for the latest info, how to go about it, and like you, what advantages/disadvantages there are, etc.
About 1 year ago I migrated from my ISY994 to directly connecting my PLM to Home Assistant. I never looked back and had great results. If your PLM is a 2413S you will need a special interface cable to swap the data lines. You can build it yourself. I donāt think I did anything special with the PLM. I just referred to the Insteon integration documentation.
Let me know if you need the interface cable instructions.
Thanks for the response @Jefe! I did want to ask. With the direct connection of the PLM to Home Assistant that you never looked back from are you able to:
Add or re-add a line powered Insteon device with just its Insteon address and not need to go press a set button on the device?
Able to manage Insteon groups/scenes such that any Insteon device can be a part of any Insteon group/scene and control how it behaves in that Insteon group/scene as well as set a specific device to trigger that Insteon group/scene
Able to add links to an Insteon deviceās configuration to act as a controller or as a responder to another Insteon device such that Home Assistant does not even need to be involved after the device is programmed.
Those are the 3 functions I was wanting to see how they are handled with the direct connection of the PLM to Home Assistant. Since I have over 120+ Insteon devices and Insteon is by far the dominant protocol and device type in my home, these are very important points to be able to mange my setup.
Thanks for the response @wmaker! I did want to ask. With the Insteon2MQTT and your 2413U PLM, where do you run the Insteon2MQTT and are you able to:
Add or re-add a line powered Insteon device with just its Insteon address and not need to go press a set button on the device?
Able to manage Insteon groups/scenes such that any Insteon device can be a part of any Insteon group/scene and control how it behaves in that Insteon group/scene as well as set a specific device to trigger that Insteon group/scene
Able to add links to an Insteon deviceās configuration to act as a controller or as a responder to another Insteon device such that Home Assistant does not even need to be involved after the device is programmed.
Those are the 3 functions I was wanting to see how they are handled with the direct connection of the PLM to Home Assistant. Since I have over 120+ Insteon devices and Insteon is by far the dominant protocol and device type in my home, these are very important points to be able to mange my setup.
@1Gunn , it looks like after your post we got some responses. Both just tell me they are happy with what they have but they do not yet address the specific questions I asked in terms of functionality. I hope I can get more details from them on both running Insteon native to Home Assistant or using Insteon2MQTT. I am open to absolutely anything that will work and address most of my needs. If I do not get a response, my nuclear option is to code my own interface between Home Assistant and my HomeSeer Insteon setup. I would really like to avoid doing this and use something that already exists and is proven so long as it can do the fundamental things I need which are:
Add or re-add a line powered Insteon device with just its Insteon address and not need to go press a set button on the device?
Able to manage Insteon groups/scenes such that any Insteon device can be a part of any Insteon group/scene and control how it behaves in that Insteon group/scene as well as set a specific device to trigger that Insteon group/scene
Able to add links to an Insteon deviceās configuration to act as a controller or as a responder to another Insteon device such that Home Assistant does not even need to be involved after the device is programmed.
Several years ago, I knew the Insteon2MQTT code and how to use it in very detail, but its been a long long time and I have forgotten a lot of it. I can say that it has a CLI (which has an MQTT equivalent) that essentially allows one to do most things you are asking about. 1) Yes, 2) I think so, but I have not messed with groups/scenes, 3) The CLI allow you to manipulate the PLM and end deviceās link database, and I seem to recall this is what you need to accomplish what you are asking about.
I have 23 Insteon devices, so it is a much smaller installation than yours.
In response to your questions:
Yes, It is very easy to add a device with just an Insteon address. I must say that I rarely, if ever, have done this as my devices were almost always auto-discovered by the integration. But using an address is one option in the āAdd Deviceā screen.
I only have two Insteon scenes and a few HA scenes so I have little experience with these. My two Insteon scenes were in-place prior to migration although I did edit them after migration. Yes, any Insteon device can be a part of any Insteon group/scene. As far as āset a specific device to trigger that Insteon group/sceneā, I am unsure. It can be done with Home Assistant automations, but I donāt know if it can be setup strictly on the Insteon side.
Yes, a device can be configured to act as a Controller or Responder. I have not used this feature after I migrated but I do see it as an option in the Configuration Panel of the Integration.
@Jefe, thanks! On number #1 you say that the device is auto-discovered by the integration. I do not understand how that can work. If I were to plug in a brand new never before seen Insteon on/off plug into an outlet, are you saying that without pressing or doing anything at all, the integration sees it somehow? How would it get added to the PLM? I assumed you have to enter the Insteon Address into something that would have the PLM learn it and set it up and then the integration would āseeā it?
Thanks for all the help! I may just order another PLM and start playing with this on Home Assistant where parts of my home will be on the PLM with HomeSeer and parts will be on the PLM with Home Assistant. I appreciate any insight you can give. This is a huge migration for me.
I havenāt installed a brand new device since I migrated, which is why I havenāt needed to enter an address. My devices were already known by the PLM when I migrated.
I understand nowā¦ so you have never had the need to add a device with the Insteon setup in Home Assistant.
It looks like based on the responses the only way I am going to be able to answer my questions is by actually setting up my own separate PLM on a dedicated Home Assistant setup and test how Insteon devices are added. How an Insteon Group / Scene is managed. Finally if links can be set on other devices. I will post back my results for others to use.
Thanks for the help and feedback. I appreciate it.
Iāll add a bit of information to the conversation based upon my own experience to, hopefully, help others.
The first thing to understand is that the HA Insteon component doesnāt create the links / scenes in the PLM the way you may be accustomed to with your existing Insteon solution (certainly the UD ISY994). In practical terms this means that there may be a significant difference in the way your scenes behave. With the Insteon-native (PLM-based) scenes responses to the controller are near instantaneous where (and YMMV) the performance of HA scenes might be a bit lackluster by comparison. Donāt get me wrong, this isnāt intended as a slight against HA, itās simply the current reality and itās not limited to Insteon.
In my case, having been a long time UD ISY994 user, Home Assistant also offered me a solution to my perceived HA Insteon limitations in the form of the Universal Devices integration. That allowed me to continue to create and use PLM-based links and scenes via the ISY994 when I decided it best suited my use case and surfaced the scenes as toggle switches.
I havenāt yet experimented with the insteon-mqtt project, but it looks like I might be able to use it to retire my old ISY994 and further simplify my environment.
So, to sum up - if your current solution creates PLM-based links / scenes you may want to see if HA has an integration for it rather than migrate. If not, see if the insteon-mqtt project will work for you. Both of these may also provide an easy migration path. If neither of these will work for you understand that some things are going to behave differently.
You have given me a lot of the data I need! The solution I currently have is as ideal as it gets. It is the HomeSeer automation software running an Insteon plug-in called āMNS Insteonā. That plug-in communicates directly with my serial PLM and takes care of all of the provisioning of the Insteon network. Device devices can be easily added, modified, even replaced. Even the PLM itself can be completely replaced. The software has tons of functionality for managing the Insteon network. It then creates all of the virtual devices that link to the physical Insteon devices in the real world and you can then automate based on the status of the Insteon devices or trigger automations based on any Insteon input.
My goal was to move away from HomeSeer and completely onto Home Assistant. But my home is made up of 120+ Insteon devices.
With so many Insteon devices, they sometimes fail and need to be replaced, or I want to change how a group behaves, etc. Maintenance of the Insteon network is part of life.
Since it looks like the native integration of Insteon with Home Assistant is lacking, it does not seem like I will be able to completely migrate to Home Assistant. I may have to write an integration between HomeSeer and Home Assistant via MQTT that will allow me to keep all of my device management and provisioning on HomeSeer, but allow for control and status updates to Home Assistant in the same way that something like Zigbee2MQTT does. I have used the ISY before for Insteon, and I can tell you that nothing compares to what I have seen with Insteon on HomeSeer using the MNS Insteon plug-in.
So, if I am going to migrate the majority of my Automation to Home Assistant, I am going to need to write my custom gateway that will bridge the two systems.