I'm unhappy with the removal of GPIO

[123 (Taras)]

@maxym

Nobody should be surprised about that. One can live with it others cannot. But it is not reason to blame a community. It is how it is.
…
devs decided on their own to be open source developers, … With all consequences related to that decision.

In the interests of equality, your fatalistic attitude to the developer’s plight should also apply to the users affected by this deprecation.

One can live with it others cannot. But it is not reason to blame a community. It is how it is.
…
users decided on their own to be consumers of open source software, … With all consequences related to that decision.

Without parity, one group is treated better than the other and that’s not how to build an egalitarian community.

Alternatively, all involved should be treated as equals and partners in building a product and a community.

[maxym]

Right, a communism in its pure form seems to be perfect system too. But in reality is as utopian as what you expect from communities.

There is no equality between partners, community members, devs and users whatever. Such a system is extremely unstable thus unrealistic because of our (human being) nature.
My advice is to start accepting it as a fact. Or rather as a state which cannot be changed. ever.

[123 (Taras)]

@maxym

My advice is to start accepting it as a fact

Fair enough, so help the users (of the deprecated integrations) understand that.

[maxym]

You obviously missing my point.
It will never change the situation, regardless me or 1000 of me start doing what you are telling to do so.
It’s not about me or you. It’s about how a people (incl a mob) behaves in anonymous (ie Internet) environment. Nobody will change that. You have to accept that and learn how live with this (incl efficiently work in this env, produce quality software being not hit by a wave of dissatisfaction etc)

[koying (Chris B)]

@maxym

You obviously missing my point.

I’m afraid you’re missing our point.
Whatever the “mob” says, at the end of the day the devs do what they want.
Live with it.

[maxym]

I’m glad we are getting closer to real definition of ‘community driven’ project.
in fact we have to live with it so we do. Incl outputting our dissatisfaction from time to time which is part of the deal.

good thing is that next time both parties will be less surprised since we have learnt lot about those rules

[123 (Taras)]

@maxym

good thing is that next time both parties will be less surprised since we have learnt lot about those rules

Unlikely, but one can hope.

[koying (Chris B)]

@maxym

‘community driven’ project

Is this actually written somewhere that HA is “community driven”?
The homepage says “Powered by a worldwide community of tinkerers and DIY enthusiasts”, which is not quite the same…

[parautenbach (Pieter Rautenbach)]

@CaptTom

In future if I feel personally attacked, I’ll assume it was because they misunderstood what I was trying to convey, and perceived it as just another uninformed rant.

I agree with this sentiment. I’ll also acknowledge that it can be hard to get one’s message across.

@CaptTom

Four months is plenty of notice. That wasn’t the point being made. The point was, perhaps the group of people who were knew about this before that posting in the Release Notes wasn’t large enough to generate the discussions which led to someone ultimately taking over the integration.

I hear. I was genuinely curious to know how much lead time would’ve been sufficient and wanted to point out (indirectly) that someone will be left behind no matter what. If I consider many of the comments on this topic, many would like to postpone this almost indefinitely (that’s my impression) in order to avoid the future removal. I think, if a clear stance wasn’t taken, it would’ve been taken less seriously and the eventual blow-up would just have been postponed. There are always leaders and laggards. I will bet money on the fact that even though there are now three major threads on this topic (including the release topic and this one) there will be someone coming June that will be caught by “complete surprise”.

@CaptTom

The problem is, nobody who just reads the release notes knew any of this. They saw the deprecation and abandonment as an immutable, final decision. When you hit thousands of users with a notice that the function they depend on will no longer work, even if it’s four months away, you have to expect that decision to be questioned.

Personally, I first became aware of this when I read this post: Removal of GPIO support. This was in December. Granted, it’s in the developers section so it doesn’t have the same reach as the release notes, but to me that made sense, since if anybody was to take this over it would probably be a developer. One can also subscribe to notifications on the ADRs. Here is where the original issue was proposed (already in August): Stop supporting Integrations that use GPIO in the core. I’m just trying to say this has gone through several stages, but I understand your emphasis is on the general users of HA and how they perceive the change.

I agree that the community are allowed to ask questions, but they/we should also try hard to understand why that decision was taken and understand that this is an open-source project, not a commercial one so making demands will never go down well.

@CaptTom

If anyone reads this far before firing off an angry retort, what I’ve been trying to say is that it could have been broadcast in the Release Notes (or anywhere else users will see) that developer support was needed to help avoid losing the integration. I think most of the community would respond positively to a request for help, to keep something they use alive. The negative response was because of how it was presented, not when.

Some fair points. Perhaps including links to prior discussions (like the ones above) might’ve helped to give more context and make it a but more user friendly for those that don’t yet know where to go look. Some sensitivity acknowledging that there is an impact on some users might’ve helped, but here’s the kicker: As it stands (even before thecode put up their hand to make this a custom integration), there was zero impact at that point in time, but reaction was as if the world was ending, and that was mostly for two reasons: Misunderstanding what deprecated means and not any willingness to adapt or get involved. It took surprisingly long (in my eyes) for someone to put up their hand. Even so, the lack of a maintainer wasn’t the only consideration.

[nickrout]

@Hellis81

Reading all the breaking changes is not feasible

Yes it is. I did it.

[24zeven]

This proves again: Communication is the most difficult thing.

[ErikDecibel (Erik DB)]

The communication in regards to changes should be adapted to the audience it is intended for. Not every user of this platform is tech minded and hence doesn’t understand the used terminology.
Home assistant has users from all layers in society and it is the team responsibility to provide adequate information in an understandable format for each of these type of users.
I’m 53 y old and always worked in the IT world. I was always required to provide the same information for my fellow IT’s, less technically minded helpdesk people, USERS and management.
If you want to work professionally the team has to be able to place themselves in every user role and use the correct terminology which is understandable. ( Since my first language is not English it may lack the correct vocabulary but i think I made my point )
edit ( added USERS as group too. They don’t need tech term but practical info as for example the provided examples for many configurable items in this beautiful project )

[123 (Taras)]

@ErikDecibel

Not every user of this platform is tech minded and hence doesn’t understand the used terminology.

Respectfully, they shouldn’t be using Home Assistant if they can’t read or understand Release Notes. This isn’t a product for consumers it’s for home automation hobbyists who are willing to deal with a rapidly evolving software product and its terminology.

Regardless of how “tech-minded” or not, it’s not difficult to understand the announcement that all GPIO-related integrations are deprecated. However, if none of those words make sense then they should consider switching to a consumer-level home automation product.

@ErikDecibel

I was always required to provide the same information for my fellow IT’s, less technically minded helpdesk people, USERS and management.

This is an open-source software project comprised of volunteers. All support here is free and provided by volunteers. If you want to volunteer your time to the project, and transform it to meet your expectations, you’re welcome to participate and contribute.

[ErikDecibel (Erik DB)]

I’m not complaining about the lack of anything for myself. That’s the point. I can’t emphasize with all type of users of Home Assistant.
This is the same issue like the Linux OS where you have hardcore users and users.
In regards the the release notes, I read them all before applying an update and prepare myself for an eventual rollback to a previous situation when things don’t work out as expected. I’m still new to HA myself and learning every day. Same applies to the open-source software concept.
I was a Windows user software and other closed source software ( Architect - User - Administrator - Technician - Implementer ) before I was unable to work any longer.

Read this blog from the founder of HA https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/01/19/perfect-home-automation/

I did create a github account to follow the work from Tom with the GPIO integration to make myself familiar with the workflow.

I stick to my previous statement, devs are often not the best individuals to provide the required information about their own child, their code.
There is a difference between a dev and a user. Users are often capable of creating complex systems with the provided tools but they should also be treated with respect.

You need to be willing to approach issues, like with the GPIO integration, as a learning experience as owner of the project and adapt.

Maybe I’ll start contributing in future, it all depends on personal factors.

Home assistant has a great community with lots of people willing to help each other out to create a local way of implementing automation. I DO understand why certain decisions were made but the communication and responses from certain individuals about the complaints with the GPIO situation were below civil.

One more thing, not all tinkerers are professional but did learn it because they want to stay away from closed source- cloud implementations.

HA is getting used more and more thus the project owners have to adapt too.
FYI, the Release Notes could contain more information. Often the related links don’t even contain proper motivation/information without spending hours digging.

Tinkerers and developers are not in the same realm.

One last comment, not all users are native English. The world is bigger then the US and the UK.

[maxym]

@123

Respectfully, they shouldn’t be using Home Assistant if they can’t read or understand Release Notes. This isn’t a product for consumers it’s for home automation hobbyists who are willing to deal with a rapidly evolving software product and its terminology.

It’s rather your wishful-thinking. changes in HA towards normal users speak opposite.
Please stop justify wrong decisions and insufficient communication with such a statement (not the first time).

[nickrout]

@ErikDecibel

One last comment, not all users are native English.

The UK and US are not the only countries where english is spoken! But it is a lingua franca in the tech world and I’d hate to see the forum go off in different language directions, but that is easy to say from a new zealander

But more relevant to your post, I think I did suggest in one another of these endless “I’m unhappy” threads that I thought the devs could do with a community liaison officer (or officers) who could manage communicating possibly controversial decisions. Fell on deaf ears.

[aidbish (Adrian)]

@maxym

Please stop justify wrong decisions and insufficient communication with such a statement (not the first time).

That is your opinion

[maxym]

And what we are talking about last 2 days in this thread? Isn’t it lack in communication?

[aidbish (Adrian)]

no, people unhappy with the removal of GPIO.

Not everyone here has blamed the lack of communication

[maxym]

it has been said already (though you don’t have to agree with that) that root cause is communication which in its form does not fitting the target.