IP Cameras and the race to the bottom

So I just did another dive into IP cameras, and wow, this market is a disaster. I am struggling to find a selection of cameras that meet my requirements.My rule #1 with HA and tech in general is to not trust the cloud, so I am looking for devices with the following requirements.

  1. Local control. Must be able to connect to the camera purely locally.
  2. ONVIF/RTSPstream support. This seems to be the best modern stream protocol.
  3. No cloud requirements. I want a PoE camera that I can plug in, go to its IP and use a default user/pass to setup. For a WiFi camera, I want to turn it on, connect to an ad-hoc hotspot for initial config, and go from there. I donā€™t mind if it can optionally connect to the cloud later.
  4. No flashing custom firmware required. This would likely be a brittle process and Iā€™d prefer to avoid it.

The market is a disaster, with giant piles of junk, all aiming at lower and lower price points. The most popular cameras I see recommended have some sort of cloud-based setup, or just as bad, app-based setup. Do I trust that in 5 years the Amcrest/Reolink/whatever app will still be on the android app stores? That it will with my then 5+ year old camera? That it will work with my current mobile devices? Do I trust the app itself on my network/devices? Noooooope.

I have seen that the Unifi cameras (except their cheapass new WiFi one as an exception) have a standalone mode that actually seem to fill my requirements. A few more options would be nice to look at. Iā€™m also looking for a wifi-camera for a garage that I canā€™t run ethernet to (rental). I may consider a wireless bridge to that one camera, since anything wifi is likely to be a total mess in this segment.

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Reolink does not require cloud setup. Each camera hosts a web server for that.

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Dahua or hikvision will meet all your requirements. They also range the price gamut. You can spend $50-$500 on a camera depending on how much on board AI there is.

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Oh interesting. I had based my assumptions on reolink on their quick-start guide (pdf).

Iā€™ve had the best luck with those $40 Zoneway and Vstar cams that you just connect to your local LAN/wifi and access the embedded http server in itā€™s firmware. Nothing goes outside other than if you configure to an NNTP time update on it.
Iā€™ve got a couple of those each that have been working for 4 years and all semi-outdoors (under porch roofs or eves).

Iā€™m using all Hikvision. Their bullet cameras for outside and their smaller ā€˜box typeā€™ cameras for inside. They have good hardware, are well built, really great image quality and not too expensive (but not super cheap either). Just donā€™t let them have internet access, so they donā€™t phone home.

And in terms of onboard AI, the newer Easy IP 4 models work pretty nicely to detect humans and vehicles. Itā€™s all on the camera, so no need for external processing.

Theyā€™re all RTSP and ONVIF, so no cloud needed. Their AI smart events can be directly integrated into HA using the Hikvision integration.

i recently start looking to replace my cameras.

currently I have some syssing and jennov brand camera and crap as their software is, the image and physical units were decent

I decide now to look at Amcrest. I recently by IP5M-T1179EW-28MM dome camera and am very happy with software. below I list findings

IP5M-T1179EW-28MM ($50)

  • sd card support allow store and manage video at unit. no need for nvr
  • store to ftp allow me send image to NAS and view through other software
  • standard onvif and streaming support allow connect to motioneye, zoneminder, etc
  • actually in english, my other cams are in japanese and dont have the other language support
  • time is correct. many cheap cam cannot set the time
  • mic and trigger on audio capability
  • trigger on event capability
  • direct HA integration
  • starts in DHCP because how annoying is it to have them start as static ip and need go through he11 to get them into correct vlan (fyi, i put cams in vlan with no WAN or LAN access, only allow incoming)
  • really you can get this cam and manage all from its UI and use HA for the live view

BAD

  • its plastic. its mount is weird and requires no screws to adjust but this is kinda nice if you dont have in accessible (to the vandal) area. I put this under covered patio and plan to use the bullet version in the exposed locations
  • i try to find firmware update on amcrest and it not exist. when you click on ā€œupdate firmwareā€ in camera software it take you to amcrest website and ask you login. honestly i feel they may became the company that do the random software cripple or other trick to force the user subscription. That said, I dont expect to update the camera firmware and if they always maintain this level function I would find it amazing

NOTE
Motioneye is not working for me and I wanted to move to other software. I decided to get the cam that allow the local function and record and move away from NVR type solution. I worry the SD card fail over time with multiple writes so I consider have these camera store to NAS and manage the images in motioneye to allow the easy access. Currenly I do not save video but use doods to capture using Object Detect every 1-5 second and save in motioneye folder.

I run Macs and use SecuritySpy as my camera server, which allows me to choose from hundreds of camera models. It works quite well and will publish the cameras as IP cameras if you want - I like this because I donā€™t have to setup all my cameras on different IPā€™s in HA, just one IP to SecuritySpy with a parameter to indicate which camera number I want that feed to use. It also makes it super easy to use my cameras with HomeKit.

I run 8MP hikvision cameras with blueiris on the NVR side. Used to have a Unifi camera but they just always seem behind on specs. No cloud involved though in either case.

I do have concerns around IOT security issues but I have taken captures on the HIkvisionā€™s and they donā€™t reach out to their cloud unless you configure them to.

My house is a Lorex house, I will not buy anything except Sony, Lorex, and Axis, they seem to be the only ones that will run for years and years without breaking.

These companies make a WIDE range of cameras, from crap to full res thermal fusion.

For Lorex I have LNB4421B x 1 and LNE8950AB x 2
The LNE8950AB is far superior in image quality, but neither will work simultaneously with wide HDR and antiflicker, which leaves Axis for areas where you need real security AND low storage space.
Wide HDR is required for a camera that sees interior and exterior at the same time, as the sun will whiteout the exterior, or blackout the interior. And antiflicker is required for proper motion detection and low bandwidth video, without it the VBR video encoder uses almost double.

My Sony is ancient and ā€œonlyā€ 720p res, but it still works and has good night vision without using IR. It is more that 10 years old now.

None of these use an app or anything, they expose a web server for you to configure settings, and have multiple video encoders, so you can have multiple streams at differing resolutions, a high res for live viewing or recording, and a lower for motion/object detection or longer term recording. The Lorex models also work 100% with the HA ONVIF integration, no hacks or quirks required.

Just a quick note, Lorex is Dahua. Theyā€™re their US subsidiary. New Lorex cams are rebranded Dahua. Not necessarily a bad thing, Dahua has good hardware for the most part. Just something to keep in mind.

It has been that way for a while, what is interesting is that Dahua and Hikvision have both been placed on a list of ā€œequipment or services that will pose a threat to U.S. national security or the security and safety of Americansā€

Just so you know, many current Amcrest cameras are OEM Dahua units with Amcrest branding silkscreened on the hardware and logoā€™ed on the firmware.

Correct. There is obviously an entire geopolitical dimension behind this, but from a purely technical point of view, you can easily remedy to any real of perceived ā€˜risk to your safetyā€™ by locking them into a local subnet. Hardware wise, both Hik and Dahua are really good, especially considering their price point (most probably heavily subsidized by the Chinese government). Whether or not the political considerations are a factor in your purchase decision, well, thatā€™s up to you.

If someone was actually concerned about the geopolitical issues and the ā€œbanā€ of Dahua/Hikvision, is there even a decent alternative given that so many other brands are just re-branded Dahua cameras?

Iā€™m not worried either way, but I am a bit curious. The cameras will end up on an entirely isolated subnet with no access to the internet or the rest of the network.

Technically, the firmware is customized on OEM builds. So maybe thereā€™s one backdoor less in it. Or maybe even one more. Short of doing a full forensic analysis of the FW, thereā€™s no way to know.

There was an interesting discussion on the Wyze forums a couple of years ago, when users wondered about some weird access to Chinese IPs from their WyzeCam 1. A developer from Wyze basically said, they got the Chinese FW with only partial sources they could customize, even though they licensed the platform. There was a binary black box in the FW they had no access to and the FW would not work without it. It seemed that the phoning home came from that black box.

Anecdotal evidence of course. But yeah, isolate on subnet to be on the safe side, regardless of the actual camera brand.

So in summary

The top (3) recommendations are

  1. Dahua
  2. OEM Dahua
  3. Brand ā€œinsert hereā€ thatā€™s secretly Dahua

And regardless of camera, beware the back door, lock down networking and cross fingers you didnā€™t misconfigure network(continue to check for vulnerabilities here and avoid completely if you are valueable target )

Or Hikvision (Dahuaā€™s competition, theyā€™re pretty much equivalent technically), but spot on otherwise haha.

I mean having them access the internet accidentally isnā€™t going to lead to you to being compromised the second they access the net. The CCP has other things to do than monitor your backyard or driveway. Itā€™s more a thing for high security or military installations or so. The more realistic threat here is a third party exploiting bugs in the camera FW. But thatā€™s pretty much the same for most IoT devices. Cameras just have this added potential of being a real invasion of privacy if breached.

Race to the bottom indeed. Pretty frustrating.

For an outdoor camera mostly for time-lapse of weather and a view of downtown I went with an Amcrest 4K (8MP) 4mm bullet. It covers some of your requirements:

  • PoE
  • No ā€œcloudā€ BS (local integration with HA).
  • I didnā€™t feel a need to flash custom firmware.
    It has RTSP but Iā€™m not sure it meets your requirements further. For example, I can use VLC player to stream at full resolution.

Even with the 4mm focal length I wasnā€™t happy with the distortion from the wide angle. A nice trick is to use OpenCV and the checkerboard calibration: OpenCV: Camera calibration With OpenCV. With that, I get a nice distortion free view with only a small loss of FOV and still nice resolution.

EDIT: details on how to remove barrel distortion from these IP cameras:
OpenCV camera image calibration to remove barrel distortion - Share your Projects! - Home Assistant Community (home-assistant.io)

So, my use case is a little weird. I need three cameras for my 25ā€™ Airstream trailer, two in the front upper corners looking backwards and one in the middle in the rear looking down, in order to be able to park this damn thing with one side six inches from a tree. So I have to be able to stream video from these with no cloud service, for starters, and powering them with batteries is another huge need as I canā€™t get power out there. (There is an off chance I could tap 12V off the running lights in those spots, but I really REALLY donā€™t want to screw those up.) On the positive side, I donā€™t even want to leave them outside beyond when Iā€™m parking because I donā€™t want them to get screwed up in the meantime. So, my requirements are

  • RTSP/no cloud
  • battery powered
  • preferably outdoor model (only to account for possibly needing to park in the rain)
  • wifi
  • velcro mountable? not entirely sure how to hack attaching them up there.

TIA for any thoughts.