For future update choices can I ask if the latest ‘stable’ version be listed here?
Something like:
Current Version: 0.103.3
Released: December 20, 2019
They are all stable.
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Haha…Nick, please tell me you are not serious?
I have lost count of how many versions I have installed since I made a very poor choice to move from a stable version (well for my purposes) for at least 6 months to .0100.something only to find HA was desperately broken and I could not return to my stable version for some unknown reason.
Yes, I probably made a poor decision in not insuring my /config folder was not backed up but I have made that journey backwards with never a problem in the past. Won’t be doing that again!
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The only instability I have seen is self created.
That’s what you get when you don’t update a product in beta stage with a release cycle of 3 weeks, where it is expected to have breaking changes in every release 
Just because it didn’t work for you when you upgraded from a 6 month old version, doesn’t mean it is not stable. I had every major version since something around 0.80, and not a single one of them was not stable.
Yes, this was a poor decision 
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A better way to say it might be that all versions are equally unstable?
There’s never been (to my knowledge) a release made that was intentionally unstable or released with known issues (other than breaking changes).
If there’s an issue with a release making something unstable, it was unknown before release.
This is largely due to the limited number of people testing the beta versions before being published, where not every single component and edge case can be tested if the people testing them don’t have that hardware to test with (or aren’t using it in the way that you are).
Home-Assistant does have a beta channel and a stable channel. All of the releases you are likely to see (unless you explicitly joined the beta channel) are deemed stable until someone finds an issue.
You can always skip the 0.XXX.0 releases and wait until the first or second hotfix before upgrading, but if too many people do that, it just delays the time until issues are identified and fixed.
You can also check the alerts page for known issues.
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We are all beta testers 
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I am absolutely aware this is a beta stage product. Let me assure you all that I know when HA is running well it is indeed rock solid. It would be nice if along the the beta process that once a certain version (lets say that it was 0.92.2 for instance) was proven to be rock solid (possibly with some known flaws which are then clearly documented) then that was published as being the best choice for those who do not want to participate in the beta testing process for whatever reasons they may have. Some people like myself would run more than one version to test without the risk of losing what to them is a fairly important piece of infrastructure.
Then down the track there comes a time when another version is recognised that it fills the same conditions ie: it was proven to be rock solid (possibly with some known flaws which are again clearly documented). God forbid there could even be documented upgrade advice given for the move from one to the other.
Pardon my ignorance but is that not a more professional way to run a beta process?
In doing so you may actually take the strain off the forum for the many people who may not have the time, the skills or the will to take a chance on the result of a bad upgrade and the resulting urgent need for support.
PS:
STOP 0.103.3 @ 1130 RUNTIME approximately 8 hours ZERO Errors/Warnings
START 0.103.2 @ 1131
ERRORS NOTICED: @ 1212
Errors/Warnings are:
2019-12-22 01:36:13 WARNING (MainThread) [homeassistant.components.switch] Setup of platform mqtt is taking over 10 seconds.
2019-12-22 02:08:20 ERROR (InfluxDB) [homeassistant.components.influxdb] Write error: HTTPConnectionPool(host='10.0.3.1', port=32770): Read timed out. (read timeout=5)
2019-12-22 02:08:46 ERROR (InfluxDB) [homeassistant.components.influxdb] Resumed, lost 35 events
I can tell you all that from recent experience that there will be fifty or more various errors over the next 6-8 hours and CPU and Memory will be looking sad. But no I’ll choose what appears to be the latest stable version for now gents…
Cheers for your input guys, it’s been very enlightening.
RESTART 0.103.3 @ 1220 ZERO ERRORS
What’s very stable for you, might not be for me, and it’ll be different for the next guy too. It’s very dependant on which integrations you have and how you have things configured.
I usually wait and deploy a release when there’s been one or two bug fix releases after, and when I’ve checked that nothing I use is causing a lot of complaints.
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I agree with everything you are saying about it being dependant on what integrations we all have.
I rarely see breaking changes for the integrations I use as I stick with the bare minimum for my needs.
The releases mentioned on home-assistant.io are stable. The unstable releases (beta, rc, etc.) are available on PyPI/Github and marked as “pre-release”.
This 
- Home Assistant releases are, generally speaking, stable by definition.
Now, that’s not to say that releases don’t bring breaking changes, they do. That’s not to say that some integrations may not have issues - things change outside of the devs control. That’s also not to say that some versions don’t bring surprises - the devs test what they can, and the beta releases are supposed to test the rest, but it doesn’t always work out that way.
A beta process by definition doesn’t have a “stable beta”. There is no such concept. The whole point of a beta process is to move steadily towards a production, stable, release.
That’ll be the breaking changes documented in the release notes.
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It seems to me you are all missing the most important point I’m trying to make?
- Yes this is a beta program.
- You need to recognise that you have created a working product that is running important stuff for your users and you need to help them find the best candidate for that task.
AIM: Happier first time users or those looking for greater reliability
Side benefit: Potentially easier support
HOW:
- Work out the most suitable candidate from a run of beta releases that has the least problems (could be nominated by this community possibly?)
- Designate it as the current best choice for users who want HA to just work
- Continue the beta program normally until the community recognise another most suitable candidate
- Document the requirements for update between these versions
- Repeat
All official releases are stable, none of the versions is “more” stable than any other version. And as mentioned before,all of them have been stable for me! All the issues I had were created by the person sitting in front of the machine
All breaking changes are in the release notes and it is explained there how to change your config to adapt to these breaking changes. What more do you want?
Let’s assume the community chose 0.92 as “stable” version and then the next “stable” version is 0.99. This will be way harder to upgrade between these versions because there are lots of breaking changes, with huge impact sometimes. If I were a newbie and need to deal with so many changes, I think I would give up immediately.
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I always run the betas and take the risks associated with that. I read the release notes too and adjust my config for any breaking changes. I think in the last 2 years there has been one occasion when a beta broke things so badly I had to roll back. (Last week, 0.103.1 I think totally broke and for hass.io at least automatically rolled back)
A community ‘vote’ for an approved version is totally unworkable.
If you choose to not stay current on the very recent releases (if not the latest/stable) when you do decide to update… you will spend far more time fixing your broken system than if you rolled-with-the-punches with every version as they rolled out. In fact… 6 months is like an eternity and you would almost be better off starting fresh. In any case you should keep backups of your entire config folder.
In any case, until we get to version 1.0 release, this situation isn’t likely to change.
@Burningstone With respect:
Then it’s my belief that needs to be explicitly explained to potential new and possibly (less skilled) users at the earliest point in their choosing to use HA.
WHY?
Because (as I said) “You need to recognise that you have created a working product that is running important stuff for your (less skilled) users and you need to help them find the best candidate for that task.”
Regarding the update path documentation…you need to be helping your (less skilled) users continue their progress as this is ultimately in everyone’s interest because your (less skilled) users will eventually become more skilled and potentially help with the development of this wonderful product.
This is just completely impossible! No version is released with the expectation of unknown problems… if it WAS it wouldn’t be released! The most suitable version is defacto the one tagged stable.
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@DavidFW1960 So when you look back from version 0.103.1 to version 0.99. (best performer) should the less skilled user have just stayed there for now?
I must reiterate though…my config had absolutely zero breaking change items to fix from 0.92.2 to 0.100.(whatever it was) and it broke completely including screwing up my ability to roll back. Miraculously at 0.103.3 the same config runs perfectly.
I’m done…you guys obviously know better so I’ll just plod along doing my own thing here I reckon!
On behalf of the community I nominate 0.103.3 as latest stable release. Thanks for coming everyone, see you when 0.104.2 is out.
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