Replacing the lights in my garage and installing 432 watts of LED lighting (MORE POWER!) This is controlled by a 0-10v dimmer that can handle 960 watts of LED and can be a three-way switch (On-off only to the 3 way.) I’d love to find a relay that would allow me to connect the lights in to Home Assistant so I can control them with the garage door opener and such. But not finding any relays that handle this level of wattage on LED bulbs. Anyone know of a relay that would handle this much LED wattage? Or got another idea?
Another alternative is using smart relay with a contactor
Watts alone means nothing. What voltage?
Relays are not rated in wattage- only and maximum current and voltage.
You do realize that a relay is ON-OFF only?
These can handle 10A. As Steve correctly stated, watts is not what you need to look for, it’s current. If you are on 240V like me, then your 500W is roughly 2A, or double -ish that at 110V. This relay handles that easily.
Sorry, I forget we’re int’l here and I should include voltage! 120v here.
And I may not be using the correct term. I say relay because it seems most of the products I’m looking at use that in their name. For example - I have a Zooz ZEN51 that controls my outdoor lighting transformer. In the docs, it says don’t exceed 150W of LED. So I can’t use that here, for example…
I do understand what a relay is and how it’s used, but in these cases, since the load is also passing through the device, I assume this is where the max wattage (Amps) comes in.
Looking at the Nano specs, it mentions -
All versions are compatible to these voltage levels and max currents:
110/120VAC 50/60Hz (1 phase only)
Resistive Max: 15A
Inductive Max: 5A
Capacitive Max: 3.5A
Clearly not resistive in my case. But I’m not sure whether my LED drivers are inductive or capacitive. If capacitive, I’m over the rated amps…
[raises eyebrows] I’m curious to know more about this.
First, 432w of LED lighting is really, really (really) bright. Ordinarily 15w LED bulb is about the equivalent of a 100w incandescent, so is this ~28 separate bulbs? Or to use another metric, most LED strips consume about 5-8w per meter, so is this 52m of strips? The type of lighting matters because of the driver(s), which do the conversion from AC to DC, and which contain the capacitors that trigger the inrush current, which in turn is what limits certain electronics to lower wattage on LEDs. That link suggests 8x inrush-to-steady-state current ratio for planning purposes, e.g. a 10A (1200w) relay like the ZEN51 could handle 1200/8=150w of LEDs (at 120v).
Second, what kind of device is this 960w three-way 0-10v dimmer? Is it an LED driver (power conversion) that takes 0-10v input (sink) and converts 110vac to 24vdc modulated output? (If so, 960w is impressive; the biggest I saw on Amazon is only 600w). Or is it just a wall dimmer with 0-10v output (source) and if so, is that being used for anything? Any dimmer needs to be compatible with the driver, and when using a dimmer you would ordinarily make that smart rather than just cutting power to it with a relay. If it’s anything like that Amazon link, you might be able to use a 0-10v z-wave dimmer module like the Zooz ZEN54 or Qubino ZMNHVD3, both of which also have a sense input for a on/off wall switch.
Hahaha, glad I piqued your curiosity. Yes, it’s going to be a lot of light. Guarantee I’ve overdone it, but I also believe you can’t have too much light (When on a dimmer.)
I’m redoing my garage and will have six of these panels on the ceiling. Max wattage per light is 72w.
And for my dimmer.
I did test this with just one light and it works well. Very happy with the dimming abilities. The dimmer can function as a 3-way, and that was my plan - find a relay that does the same and tie things together. I agree, I’d like the dimmer to be smart, but for this case. . .
On this Reddit thread, there was talk of an association (Which was new for me and I just learned how to do this for another device/switch that I had here.) But confused the hell out of me in that I think the reader may have mistaken what I have currently.
But if I’m reading it correctly, sounds like they are saying get a Zen54 to handle the load and 0-10v dimming, then any old ZWave dimmer switch and don’t connect the load through it, just use it for a hard dimmer switch.
If so, that would work, other than my concern that I’m over 80% load of the rating on the Zen54 (If it matters.)
Those panels have a built-in driver (ac/dc conversion) and a built-in dimmer that accepts 0-10vdc as input signal. The Lutron just sends a low-voltage, low-power signal to the panel’s built-in dimmable driver module, telling it what brightness level to apply; the switch is not shouldering the full 400w+ lighting load. You can use (for example) 18/2 thermostat wiring for this 0-10v signal line.
Ideally you would use a smart 0-10v in-wall dimmer switch to replace your Lutron, but I can’t find anything on the market anymore (seems Jasco used to make a Z-wave switch but discontinued it). And the Qubino module, also unfortunately discontinued, was unique in having both 0-10v input and output, so it could read the Lutron’s position to send output to the panels, while adding Z-wave control.
The group associations option would work, just with more smart hardware. I think you are understanding correctly that the ZEN54 could provide the low-power 0-10v signal to the panels, and a no-load switch on the wall acts as user input device only. Group associations, which can be created in zwave-js-ui add-on, will link the wall switch’s clicks with the signal module’s output, even when HA is down. A nice side-effect here is that if you don’t have signal wires in place, you could even install several ZEN54s at panel locations (though you’re limited to five devices per association group). And you don’t even need a full dimmer switch on the wall, any kind of scene controller or remote module would also work since only the buttons are needed.
Thanks for helping clear most of this up. Yes, just learning about the 0-10v system due to the extreme wattage here. My understanding re: the current limits on the switches is simply that they can only handle so much current going through the actual switch. And those are the limits I’m seeing (And trying to work around.) So the switch IS handling the full 400w+ lighting load, no? There’s still about 4 amps running through the switch itself.
Thinking I may dump the Lutron (Still within my return period) and do the Zen54 and a dimmer switch.
Thoughts on using the Zen54 though? It’s rated for 480W at 120v. I’ll be at 432W. Sitting at 90% of the rated current for that… Not sure where the 80% rule applies and does not apply.
I’ve been generally happy with Zooz products and support. Recommend contacting them to ask these questions, as they know their product better than anyone else.
It depends on whether you are asking a sales person or an engineering person. My rule is never to operate a relay at more than 50% of the contact ratings. Motor start excepted when you can safely go to 100% for a few seconds.
As stated by @ferbulous, this much power screams for a contactor that is made for high power.
Understood. But a dimmer is different than a relay. In fact one of the intended benefits of 0-10v dimmable drivers was that they can permit higher-wattage loads than regular switched relays. In theory the Zooz module — and/or the panel’s dimmable driver — could safely ramp the brightness to avoid the normal 8-10x inrush current when turning 100% on. Whether or not they employ this feature is something hopefully they can answer (or you can test with a nice oscilloscope).
Also, depending on the panel’s implementation, you may not even need to connect the load to the Z-wave module. If the panel’s dimmer equates 0v signal with “fully off” then you can just wire the 110v load directly to the panels (so they always have power) and only use the 0-10v signal output of the ZEN54. (evidently some 0-10v dimmable drivers are really “1-10v” that only go down to 10% brightness when always-powered, so check your panels before wiring)
And you have other options. The linked panel has a physical switch to limit its power draw, so you can cap it to 80% if you are worried about the total load through the ZEN54. Alternatively you have the option of installing multiple modules, e.g. one per two or three panels, to reduce the total load through each, and relying on group associations and HA groups to keep them sync’d.
I’m actually thinking (Since I’m already way over on the light I need) that capping these to 60w on the actual panels themselves would work just fine. Now we’re at 360w, giving me a little leeway at 75% continuous load.