Mouse on wheel

Being its the 3rd most installed method, i cant see how is does not benefit the project as it add those users who want a little more control but like the ease of the addon installation etc.

Maybe we should drop support for the venv method as those who run are able to use without any support/help

People need to get out of this mentality that one installation is better than the other because of their knowledge. HA is for all regardless of install method and their knowledge

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I’m speechless…

Nobody is saying one installation method should be removed and nobody is saying one installation method is better than another. What I tried to point out is why should someone want to get him-/herself into installation trouble by using a method which assumes some basic knowledge at using the CLI if that knowledge is simply not learned yet?

Although being a *nix sysadmin for decades I chose the virualenv method first to learn about the architecture of HA and its inner workings. Then I went forward and installed HassOS. Thereafter I went to Supervised. Its about the learning curve and nothing else.

Don’t start this discussion again. There are long threads on this forum about it from beginning last year when they wanted to deprecate supervised installations. There is nothing wrong with supervised installations, just install them as they are intended, on Debian.
There is a reason I dislike Ubuntu, they always want to do things a little different from other Linux distributions.

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@tamsy my point was not directed at your comment but the statement.

If you don’t “have deep knowledge of command line things and so on”, install HassOS, THAT is the system for everyone.

A deep understanding of the cli is not required.

There are posts every week from people who want a little more control over their install or just to add something and then complain it cant be done in HAOS and so then require supervised (a install method the devs acknowledged was widely used when they tried to get rid of)

All good on my side, @aidbish, and I agree to your writing about:

What is sometimes hard to understand is why ppl. want this little more control or adding something if they are not ready to do so yet ? There is and will always be a bigger and better, not only with HA. If you look closely at some of those posts you’ll notice that often the poster has in fact no clue at all what he is doing nor what he really wants to accomplish. Even worse: Often it’s just about inquiring instant solutions while being too lazy to do some research by thermselves.

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you’ll find thats due to the amount of YouTube vids, they make it sound easy
They rarely ever recognise and explain to the viewer that HA is constantly evolving and what might be right at the time video was produced may not work next week

  1. It’s Home Assistant Supervised that isn’t supported on Ubuntu (i.e. it’s broader than merely the Supervisor portion).
  2. The documentation does explain that Home Assistant Supervised is supported exclusively on Debian. Here’s the documentation for installing Home Assistant Supervised. The very first step is to understand the requirements.

    The “requirements” link leads to a document that very clearly describes the prerequisites for installing Home Assistant Supervised, notably this:

Debian Linux Debian 10 aka Buster (no derivatives)

Before you installed Home Assistant Supervised, did you read the official installation instructions? If you did then you would have known only Debian is acceptable for an officially supported version of Home Assistant Supervised.

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No, home automation is (categorically) a hobby. The field is far from mature and your expectation should be that things will often be hard. The people contributing to HA in particular are, in my view, trying hard to make things better. If you want a product that just works, buy an iPhone. HA etc. isn’t yet a general consumer product. OTOH, just because someone picks something easier (in this case, an easier installation method) doesn’t make them less smart. But, certain methods does require more involvement and that is your choice. Don’t complain about taking the hard road if you choose it.

BTW, you’re the only one screaming here, typing in all caps. Use bold or italics for emphasis. And stop calling people names (i.e. nerds). Nobody called you anything.

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And, to be fair, I don’t think home automation will ever be “easy”. No matter how much people want it to be.

If you want to do anything at all beyond the very basic “automation” then you are always going to need some advanced knowledge and technical ability.

Think about it in relation to industrial automation systems.

PLC’s and such have been around for decades but those companies still can’t hire any “joe/jane blow” off the streets and make it so they can write PLC ladder logic/etc code. It takes lots of training and experience to get decent at it. If they could “make it easy” (as HA says they want to do) then industry would have done it years ago with the incentive that they wouldn’t have to pay for that knowledge & experience if it was so easy “a caveman could do it”.

Home automation will end up in the same place if it wants to actually be useful/powerful enough to do anything beyond simple stuff.

If you want to do “just the basics” then HA is already set up for that as much as it can be.

Otherwise you start dumbing it down too much and it becomes useless as an advanced automation system.

DIY is all well and good but it has it’s limitations just like any other technology.

If you are a good DIY auto mechanic/electrician/HVAC tech/programmer then good for you. If not then you may need to do what you would otherwise do if those technical fields are beyond your skillset - hire someone. Or better yet learn it.

This isn’t directed specifically at the OP (who had a different but related issue) but the thread has taken a turn toward this topic.

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Thanks Pieter

Hi Chris,
In case I am missing something on the installations page for x86-64

As you work throught it I see no reference to ubuntu as unsupported. References to use ubuntu.
At the bottom of the compare installation methods with respect to supervisor there are no links or info. In the documentation for istallation there doesnt seem to be any info re supervisor. Why do I need it?
thanks Ian

Those are explanation to install HassOS via an image, which is naturally built with a Debian OS and supported components.
It’s obviously not what you have done, so not sure why you mention this, tbh…

Ok I’m glad I have stimulated some discussion.

Home Assistant Supervised : Manual installation of the Supervisor where are the links to home assistant supervised please?
At the bottom of the page “Compare Installation Methods” where do I find a description of the relative benefits of each installation type?
Surely a simple flow chart with information panels would save a lot of time?

I thought I would give homeassistant a go on a linux based system. I liked the idea of a containerised ie virtual installation with full control over it but have found the documentation on its installation types difficult to decipher.
Just reading some replies, in my opinion the documentation needs to be split (or coded) to accommodate new, mid and advanced users.
The same for the installation option types for a given hardware target so a clear understanding of the pros and cons prior to installation.
It would be nice to have an entry level area with some Op support or mentors for new users, rather than ploughing through forums (with so many installation types).
I worked on Dec unix and linux based networked systems for 10 years, happy to work at cmd level. Happy to put in and learn Homeassistant just dont want to make it my lifes work as it changes continually. For basic automation & control it should be easy, leaving complicated HA tasks to those with expert status.
In good faith,
cheers

That question is confusing because it’s obviously what you did the first time :thinking:
Anyway:

  1. Installation - Home Assistant (home-assistant.io)
  2. Linux - Home Assistant (home-assistant.io)
  3. home-assistant/supervised-installer: Installer for a generic Linux system (github.com)

What would you want more than the chart?

Anyway, in case you missed it, there is a “Provide feedback” link below where you can register your suggestions regarding the documentation.

3714c6dc9581d0cd69c7b615457f0c37fe417f14

Just thought I’d stir the pot a bit.

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I provided it in my previous post, including a screenshot of the landing page.

That’s wonderful but I doubt extensive experience is needed to understand the meaning of this requirement:

Debian Linux Debian 10 aka Buster (no derivatives)

Only the above-listed version of Debian Linux is supported for running this installation method.

You should know that literally thousands of users have installed Home Assistant Supervised. Some needed help (I know I did) but complaints like this one are exceedingly rare. The documentation can always be improved but it’s not guilty of failing to warn installers about its many requirements (including the fact it’s officially supported only on Debian).

The documentation advises the reader that installing Home Assistant Supervised is an advanced installation method. In fact, the requirements section not only explains the prerequisites it cautions the reader:

This method is considered advanced and should only be used if one is an expert in managing a Linux operating system, Docker and networking.

Based on your questions and comments, it’s apparent that you didn’t read all of the available documentation, for installing Home Assistant Supervised, prior to performing the installation.


If your plan is to re-install Home Assistant Supervised on Debian, I urge you to read all of the official documentation for that installation method. If you want a second opinion about the installation process, there’s an excellent community guide here:

It is based on the official method but provides additional context and a place to ask related questions.

Good luck.

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thanks and nicely put

Like most “rant threads”, eventually it peters out and accomplishes two things:

  1. Makes its author feel vindicated.
  2. Makes experienced users avoid helping the rant’s author in the future.

Not the best long-term strategy.

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Strange, I dont feel in anyway vindicated, I didn’t consider it a rant thread when I wrote it, purely frustration, and from some of the replies I dont think I am on my own here. I’m glad I created some discussion.

I was happy that I finally had a stable home assistant installation working well using a something-ux os with docker and an mqtt container and my sensors all working. Just really disappointed that it reports as a dirty system (supervisor container and cant be fixed), so couldn’t add/use any add ons.

(my initial attempt was a pi that kept corrupting its os after a few months of run time.I asked a question back then as to how docker fitted in to homeassistant. Back then I received little help or support and a smart reply, so I took the time to research docker thoroughly. A simple explanation from an experienced user back then would have been appreciated and saved many hours. I put home assistant aside until recently due to that lack of support. Similar result trying to debug why a floorplan would not display in a lovelace card so plenty of bugs unsolved in home assistant)

I didnt trawl through the forums before starting the current new installation. Just went to the installation page…
Documentation on this page regarding types of installation and their benefits or lack of I think are poor. (it may be fine for those who are experienced and looking in the rear view mirror with experience).
I think a tutorial would be useful discussing the detailed merits of types of install and/or as I suggested for target hardware documentation graded between new to expert users.(same in the forum posts) Maybe some mentoring forums?
Also in the forums it would be helpful to have displayed member current & past implementations of homeassistant.

Ian

ps Thanks to BebeMischa (and others) for his personal experience and helpful reply.

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