Good day y’all
I’m about to implement an high availability system for my home assistant installation, based on proxmox HA. The only issue I need to solve, is how to handle the ZHA and z-wave network.
Right now, those are just two different usb coordinators attached to my single Proxmox installation. I intend to switch to network coordinators so that I can easily switch from one server to the other in case of a failover. There are plenty of zigbee coordinator PoE, and an handful of z-wave ones… But I wasn’t able to find anything like this, Z-Station , but PoE. The same company also sell something called MultiprotocolController which looks like a bit overkill… And also I couldn’t find it anywhere
So… My question is… Is there a single PoE coordinator for zigbee AND z-wave available somewhere?
Should I buy the two coordinators separately and just live with them?
Using a dedicated raspberry 4 (that I already have, unused) with my two usb coordinators could be a viable solution?
maybe an eisy with the add-ons? UD Store - Universal Devices not really sure if it would meet the use case or… it might be overkill especially if you are not using insteon devices
I’m currently exploring how to separate the Zigbee2MQTT and Thread coordinators from my main Home Assistant instance. Initially, I considered running a second HA instance on a Pi (see: Running a second HA instance as Zigbee controller and Thread border router?), but a dedicated hardware solution connected via Ethernet might be a nice alternative.
I want a device that can function independently of HA. If the HA server goes down, it should keep the mesh network intact and simply drop messages rather than relying on HA to function. I have seen some devices acting as OTBR and Zigbee controllers, but havn’t found out yet if they are just antennas or complete, standalone devices. And if they are compatible with HA. I suspect the Z-Station is just an antenna. Also I want firmware that can be easily updated, as both Zigbee and Matter standards are evolving.
Espressif has a stand-alone OTBR router with on optional Ethernet shield. Only drawback is you have to compile the firmware yourself. I have 2 of them, they work nicely.
Probably, because what you’re looking for is extremely hard to find. I DID come across someone selling something like you wanted, but it’s meant to be used as a raspberry pi hat, so not quite sure whether that meets your requirements. Will update my post if I manage to find the thread.
(EDIT: Found the thread: Z-Wave 800 Controller and ZigBee 3.0 Coordinator GPIO combine board for Pi 4B and Pi 5)
Otherwise, if you can justify 2 separate devices (always a good idea in case of hardware failure), Tube’s makes excellent POE coordinators for both Zigbee and Zwave. I’ve used his (older, non-Poe) coordinator reliably for almost 3 years and it’s been rock solid.
Thanks, I’ve seen that board before, but without a case and requiring serious command line knowledge it doesn’t meet my needs, as it isn’t user-friendly enough. I’m looking for something as easy to install and update as Home Assistant, ideally with a web interface, not a developer board. It would be great if zigbee controller device and OTBR device could integrate with HA e.g. via the ESPHome addon for easy updates of the firmware.
Do these function as stand-alone devices or do they require HA to work? Are they just antennas with an Ethernet jack instead of USB? If HA goes down, will the mesh collapse and need to be rebuilt? How does one update the firmware, do they have their own web interface or do they somehow integrate in HA for updating the firmware?
If HA itself goes down, no, but if Z2MQTT or Z-wave goes down, then obviously yes.
You can run Z2M standalone in proxmox and you can manage it from its own interface. Not sure about Zwave, but have a look here.
As for your questions regarding firmware, you can update the ESP chip just like any other ESP (via HA or standalone), but for the dedicated zigbee chip you will have to flash it manually for firmware updates.
Oh? I thought keeping up the mesh is the job of the controller and that zigbee2mqtt just is a translation to another API. Hmm, that makes it more complicated. So what does the controller then do, other than being a wireless to ethernet bridge?
By the way, Wikipedia states:
“Zigbee coordinator (ZC): The most capable device, the coordinator forms the root of the network tree and may bridge to other networks. There is precisely one Zigbee coordinator in each network since it is the device that started the network originally (the Zigbee LightLink specification also allows operation without a Zigbee coordinator, making it more usable for off-the-shelf home products). It stores information about the network, including acting as the trust center and repository for security keys.”*
If this is correct, it suggests the network stays operational as long as the coordinator is running. Why would the network collapse just because the messages can’t be passed to Mosquitto for Home Assistant to process?
I’m not sure mate. I might be wrong and you could be right.
Maybe someone will show up here and be able to answer your questions properly.
All I can tell you for certain is that your concerns with the mesh collapsing are unnecessary. I’ve had multiple power cuts where HA, Z2M and the controller itself were offline - never had an issue with the mesh collapsing once power was restored.
That said the controller is in most cases initialized and powered by the machine it’s connected to.
I used to have an old Aeotec stick with a. Battery in it you could issue excludes with using a complex button press. Was designed to carry to a stubborn device for include / exclude (and I don’t recommend using it)
So how this exhibits is if you had ZWave for instance, with directly associated devices and then take both ha and the stick offline, the local ZWave device still retains local control and any direct association I setup previously will continue to work. But ha obviously can’t keep track of anything and I have no remote controls except for those setup using Da earlier. I also cannot add or remove nodes while the controller is down.
Also on a side note. Separate devices.
ZWave and Zigbee backup and restoration procedures are different enough that you do NOT want to have to backup and restore one because the other half of your stick died. IMHO keep them separated.
My Thread network takes 5-10 minutes to fully restore because the battery-powered devices only wake up every 2-3 minutes. If no network is available when they wake, they go back to sleep, and it takes time for the powered devices to form the mesh. My Zigbee network isn’t as slow, but the downtime is still unnecessary. Updating a single addon in HACS requires a reboot, which causes the entire network to collapse and remain offline for several minutes. I don’t want to have to explain my family members why they can’t turn on the light for minutes just because I rebooted the server.
So, if something is a “Zigbee controller,” does the network stay functional even if Home Assistant is down temporarily? And how do you configure a PoE Ethernet device if that’s the case? Do these controllers have their own web UI? Or do they integrate in the HA settings?
What about PoE powered controllers that aren’t “connected” to anything other than Ethernet?
It does, zigbee - for purposes of your question will basically behave the same as how I describe ZWave above. Thread - I’m reading there’s ipv6 weirdness to contend with.
(edit: one zigbee uniqueness - when a devices routing parent is absent for > 20min its supposed to - supposed to because not all vendors do this correctly - go into panic mode and start hunting for a new parent in the mesh. This is a well known trick to get your devices to hut for new routes. So if you plan on having the stick down for more than >20m expect a flood for a few min while everyone resets thier parent. Otherwise it’s fine.)
There is nothing unique about a poe controller inthis context it’s powered or not and is connected to its controlling software or not.
If it’s not powered with access to the controller software the rules above apply.
PoE is only making it easy for you to place it and power it you could totally replace it with an Rpi serving two sticks using ser2net
Yes. Another example is that I moved the controller (stick) to a different machine, recently, and the mesh and bindings were still there on the new machine.
Nathan and Chris, thanks a lot! Do standalone Zigbee controllers have a web UI for configuration and firmware updates? How do I assign the IP address to use, how do I flash the firmware, how do I choose the channel to use etc.?
Francis, thanks! When comparing these two interfaces I’m very much drawn towards the UZG-01. I noticed it still uses the CC2652 (Texas Instruments) chipset, so I assume a version with the EFR32MG21 (Silicon Labs) might be released soon. From what I’ve read, the EFR32MG21 is a newer, more performant and future-proof chipset.
