I have a “test system” running Hassio on a 3B+ and it’s great. I’ve turned the hallway outside my office into a miniature version of what I’m going to put together for my house that’s under construction right now (just broke ground last week). I have an Insteon keypad, 4 Hue bulbs, an Aeotech 6-in-1 sensor, and of course some more normal stuff like router and Google Maps trackers, a few zones, Pushover notifications, Z-Wave (Aeotech stick), etc.
Thing is, the Pi seems a bit slow (I’m on my second one) and for whatever reason when it reboots, the front-end almost never loads even though it is on the network (can access share via Windows and SSH fine). But those are lesser issues: the real thing is that my new system will be huge in the new house. Here are some estimations:
250+ Hue Bulbs
15+ Insteon keypads
20+ Z-wave or Wifi dimmers/switches
40+ Aeotech 6-in-1 sensors
10+ Nest Protects
15+ IP cameras
20+ PowerView blinds
30+ door and window sensors
Misc other things like garage door openers, electrical sensors (like Sense), leak detectors, wifi connected appliances, several media players, HVAC stuff,
…and of course hundreds of automations and scripts.
Something tells me my Pi will melt.
For something this big, what’s the general advice? VM in Windows 10? Custom Linux build? Other thoughts? I’m a Windows guy and am not unfamiliar with JS and YAML (thanks to all of you). And while I’m not too familiar with Linux, I never have trouble getting things setup - I’m a smart guy and can follow directions. But if you HA experts were doing something this big, what would you go with? Budget isn’t 'a big issue - I could invest several hundred dollars to a few thousand in something considering that this is the “brains” of my new home.
Presuming its only function is ‘the brains’ of HA it won’t actually need to be mega powerful, but as you say probably more powerful than a pi. NUCs, thin clients, anything ‘low powered’ will do the job pretty well and not cane through too much electricity in the process.
The consistent advice will always be to use Linux over Windows, simply because some things don’t work properly on Windows.
As for how you build it on Linux you’ll have various suggestions around docker and venvs, but really it’s just whatever you feel comfortable with as the end result will be homeassistant running in any case.
A headless debian installation with homeassistant in a venv is my preference, and you can have it up and running in about half an hour including tea breaks. Then it’s just configuring your automations and such.
I’d go with a i5 or i7 powered NUC running Ubuntu and use the HA docker container releases. Easy to maintain; good performance; etc.
You probably plan some Unifi WiFi in the big mansion as well; so the NUC also becomes a natural for the Unifi controller also in a docker container.
Pay careful attention to the ZigBee choices you make and how you deploy the Hue’s; I have been told at 50 devices it becomes problematic. You may want multiple ZigBee gateways and spread the Hue’s across them.
Love the idea of an i5/i7 NUC - didn’t even think of that. And Ubuntu is the one dist I have a little (read: very little) experience with but I remember it being super straightforward.
And yes, I think I’ll keep my Hue-per-Hub ratio (HPHR <- fancy) at 45 or so to be safe.
You bring up something interesting with your industrial WiFi comment: I’m planning on using a good home mesh system (I have Orbi running now) but I have been looking, and unsuccessfully, for a more industrial level mesh system with better management (saying Orbi’s is lacking is an understatement) but all I seem to be able to find are classic AP-based systems. Any advice there?
Mesh is a compromise for existing buildings irregardless of whatever anyone tells you. You burn up precious RF space with the backhauls that cable handles much better.
If you are building new do yourself a huge favor and pull cat6a from your infrastructure room to 2 or 3 locations in your ceilings on each floor of the house. You can then use Ubiquti AP’s and get good performance.
For the locations try to center one in the middle of each floor; and then 1 or 2 more to get line of site to these locations wherever you want to have blazing fast WiFi (where you and your family does their “surfing” so to speak)
You can also put a couple locations outdoors to cover your yard particularly decks or pool areas. Also one in the garage is not a bad idea as well.
They also have in wall versions but coverage is not as great; so you’d have to plan to have more of them.
A big +1 for UniFi and not running mesh. Mesh is really great for when you can’t pull wire to an access point…it’s an access point that connects wirelessly to another AP, that’s all. While decidedly better than a single router and a bunch of dead zones, it’ll get blown out of the water every single time by APs connected to a wired network over gigabit Ethernet. If you’re pulling wires in a new home, definitely pull some cat6 to ceiling points, maybe one for the backyard too, and run a controller on the same server running Hass. Bonus points since you can also use it for presence detection.
You could get really creative and stick one of their UAP-AC-IW in-wall access points in every room…bonus points here since they each provide two Ethernet ports, one with PoE. https://inwall.ubnt.com
I use Orbi with wired backhaul. One router and one indoor and one outdoor satellite. Cover 335 sqm house and 8000 sqm plot flawless and full speed everywhere. It also offer more then enough management possibility for what we need to run the automations, security system and normal internet use
Thanks @jwelter - good advice. Yes, I’ll be doing CAT6a everywhere, including to ceiling mount UniFi AC Pro AP units (after reading lots of conversations about those vs HD, the HD version feels a bit over the top… plus they cost 2X). Will be doing one in the garage and one out back as well.
I think the in-wall is a bit overkill for me but part of me does love the idea.
When you mention “run a controller on the same server running Hass” - what do you mean? I assumed the Ubiquity stuff was all classic web/CLI admin. Is there something to “install” (the “controller”) or do you just mean a dedicated computer for that interfacing?
I have Orbi with wired backhaul running at our current house right now and coverage is great, but I don’t see the development levels that I was hoping, plus I have some weird issues with it that I can’t seem to overcome (frequently locks wifi devices from the internet, reboots randomly about once every few weeks, poor/slow admin, etc.). I think Ubiquity’s UniFi stuff wins for me.
We have the pro version but I dont think it is much difference in the software. The wireless backhaul is better with the newest firmware. But we probably have different approach. I want the system just to deliver what I need without any managing, jist be there. And for my needs it deliver. If the internet connection would be as stable as the orbi network all would be perfect
The in halls typically have a high wife acceptance factor (WAF) as they are not so obvious. The problem is they don’t get the coverage a ceiling mounted unit does.
You can run each AP in standalone mode, and just SSH into them to manage them. But that’s a pain in the rear, and you lose out on UniFi’s whole management system. If you go with the self-managed system, you install their controller software (it’s free and very frequently updated) on a server of your choosing, an RPi is plenty powerful enough, and manage all your APs and switches and router through that. If you change a wifi password, it updates all your APs immediately. Using the controller also enables such fancy tricks as seamless roaming between APs. It’s definitely worth IMHO if you’re using more than one AP, and basically required if you’re also using their switch(es) and router. I run mine on an AWS instance since I’m also managing the network at my wife’s church.
FWIW, I’m running their USG-PRO4 security gateway and US-16-150w switch, both rackmount. It’s probably overkill for what I’m doing, but it’s fun. The Pro4 gateway would probably be the best fit for your situation unless your internet connection will be >1Gbps. Using a PoE switch means you don’t need a bunch of PoE dongles to feed power to your APs.
If you love raw speed, check out the UAP-NANOHD. It’s not a lot more expensive than the UAP-AC-PRO, but quite a bit faster. I think they’re like $179 on Amazon right now. I think it’ll do 1.7Gbps per radio, which would be handy if you’re running a media server and have a lot of clients. It’s also about the size of a smoke detector so it’s got a pretty high WAF. The in-walls are practically invisible, easier to install (a low voltage mud ring with CAT6 run to it is all you need) but lower powered so you’d really need one in every room that needs good WiFi signal. I have a single UAP-AC-PRO on the ceiling near the south end of my 1500 sqft house; it’s enough to get decent 5g signal to the other end, and it absolutely BLASTS 2g signal throughout. I actually turned the power down on it because it was just too much. I also put a UAP-AC-MESH on the back wall outside the house so you can sit in the backyard and stream whatever. I don’t think it was really necessary but it does help with fast streaming out there.
Wow! Very nice! Thanks for all of that. I’m sure I’ll go with the Pro router, I’ll have at least 1 PoE switch, and then I’ll look into the nanos. Thanks again!
I personally woud go for a laptop. And this may sound weird, but let me explain.
Get a core i5 (or if in the price range i7). Add a nice SSD (500Gb or something). Some memory (8Gb min, maybe 16Gb).
Install Linux (Ubuntu in my case). This will allow you to to run VM’s, Run Docker or even install Hassio on top of it with ease and will give you options for every setup you like. (Yes, you can do that all at the same time as well… I run custom Docker containers AND Hassio on the same system).
But why the laptop?
Well, they are built to be energy efficient. Have a build in debug console (open the lid, and use the keyboard/screen) and above all, they have build in UPS for power outages (in the form of a battery).
Compared to a NUC with the same specs, it won’t be that much more expensive. (In my case, I’ve picked up a little older model).
I have a HP Probook with a core i5, 8Gb mem, 500Gb SSD and it is running way under capacity for my use case (it is picking its nose most of the time, really) and did not spend any more then 400 bucks.
Thats also a solution. I choose NUC because the size. It was nive to stuck away in a cupboard. I have another one as my main work computer and it is attached on the backside of the screen. I have a UPS model bigger, a Tesla Powerwall x2 so I am prepared for most things. And I have solar power enough on the roof to power it all 9 months a year. That is the premium if you live in Cyprus .-)
I run Solar as well (with over capacity, so I can power more than 100% of my needs). Nevertheless, I recently experienced a outage due to a broken component, for repair the system needed to be shut down. My HA kept running
