New to HA - how do I associate Zwave Devices

[Caesar21 (Martin Borg)]

I am relatively new to Home Assistant and am trying to migrate over from Smartthings, but I am also testing a few crucial devices to make sure the most important things are supported. It’s a big implementation with over a hundred devices, mostly Zwave…

I was trying to use the Z-Wave JS UI, but I am facing an issue with creating associations between two MCOHome MH-S314 (4-button) switches. I have plenty of these and also MH-S312 (2-button) switches around the house… And quite a few of these are essential 2-way or 3-way switches, e.g. lighting up stairways and corridors at different ends.

The first thing I noticed is that these switches are not updating their status on Home Assistant when used (toggled) manually. I created some association at some point that fixed this, but unfortunately, I also removed that association and when I recreated it, it no longer worked - pretty baffling. This is already a big issue. As an example, sometimes we use these switches to activate a pump (along with the light), there are many cases where toggling a switch activates something in the system. So that is my problem number 1: without the system realising a manual toggle has occurred, it is pretty much useless to me.

Problem number 2 is that I cannot create switch-to-switch associations (for 2/3-way lighting). In Smarthings in was easy because I used a custom driver that allowed me to enter associations per button, and then enter the target in the format node:endpoint, e.g. 78:3. But now - I am confused…

The above is the first dropdown for the Node Endpoint. Perhaps it is because of my inexperience, but I understood Endpoint to be the button number on the switch (since it is 4-button). But choosing Endpoint 1, 2, 3, or 4 all have me the following problem in Group: No data available.

If I choose Root Endpoint as the Node Endpoint, I get the following Groups (I really do not understand the concept of groups - I tried reading up on this but without a concrete example I will never understand, it seems .

I have so many questions at this point, especially what is a group, and what are those groups called “Unnamed group 3” and “Unnamed group 4”, and can I name them?

Finally I tried configuring it like this:

I clicked ADD, I refreshed, I tried the switch, nothing happens at all - Home Assistant doesn’t;t know and neither does Kitchen Switch 1.

Can someone kindly illuminate me on whether I am doing anything wrong or simply whether it is not supported well enough in Z-Wave JS? Please note the switches absolutely and most certainly do support associations - I have plenty of them working with associations reasonably well on Smartthings.

Many thanks in advance.

[cornellrwilliams (Cornell Williams)]

The reason you are not getting button press updates is because your lifeline association is not setup.

When you setup your association the target node and the target input represent the device you want to control. Let’s say you have a smart plug with (2) controlable outlets. Endpoint 1 would control outlets 1 and endpoint 2 will Control outlet 2. If you wanted to turn on outlet 1 you would set the target endpoint as 1.

Outside of this I recommend you don’t select anything for the endpoint which is the same thing as selecting no endpoint from the drop down menu.

[EndUser]

I thought that I was an experienced Zwave user, but the above sobered me up
Previously I used Universal Devices’ IoX which did not allow for Zwave associations. A few months ago, I moved everything to HA and always wanted to learn about using Zwave associations.
As mentioned, the above posts are acabadacra for me .
Should I even use Associations ?
In our master bathroom, we have 3 lights. Currently, with Automations, when 1 is ON, then 2 and 3 are ON, and same for OFF. However, there is a second delay for 2 and 3.
If I replace the Automations with an Association, would that cut out the 1 second delay ?
If yes, where can I find the ABC of Zwave Association in HA ?
Thanks

[cornellrwilliams (Cornell Williams)]

If I replace the Automations with an Association, would that cut out the 1 second delay ?

Yes it would. When you setup an association the device can send commands directly to the other devices without the need to go through the hub. Because the devices are so close to each other the response will be instant. The only thing is the commands you can send with associations are generally limited to basic (On and Off) and multilevel (Dimming) and not all devices support the same associations so check the manual to see what associations your devices support. Also I can help you set them up if you are interested.

[EndUser]

Thanks, I am trying to to find which steps to follow and any guidance would be appreciated. I have ZWave JS UI and so far I don’t see where to go.

[cornellrwilliams (Cornell Williams)]

Click the arrow next to the node id to view all of the settings for that node. Then Click the groups button. Then click add to create a new association. What is the model number of your lights? Once I know this I can tell you specifically what to set for each value.

[philh30]

@Caesar21

The first thing I noticed is that these switches are not updating their status on Home Assistant when used (toggled) manually.

The lifeline association group is 3 for your older 2-button switches and 5 for your older 4-button switches. Your newer 4-button switch uses association group 1. You need to make sure your hub is added to the lifeline for each switch. Choose the Root endpoint, choose the right group (ignore the label), and choose your hub (z-wave stick) as the target.

@Caesar21

Problem number 2 is that I cannot create switch-to-switch associations (for 2/3-way lighting).

The association groups for each button on your older switches are mapped so that group 1 is button 1, group 2 is button 2, and so on. Your new 4-button switch uses groups 2, 5, 8 and 11; mapping to the buttons in that order (group 2 is button 1).

[Caesar21 (Martin Borg)]

Many thanks. This is set up correctly, I think.

When I set these up, although I select Root Endpoint for the Target Endpoint, I still get “None” in the list view. I am not sure why, but I tried this several times to make sure I was selecting Root Endpoint, and I am 100% sure I am selecting Root Endpoint, yet still I get None in the list view.

That said, it is not working for me. I can control the switch from the app, but any manual interaction is not reflected back to HASS

Perhaps I should resolve this before I even try device-to-device associations - even though both would be showstoppers for me, but this is really important for us.

[Caesar21 (Martin Borg)]

Hey @philh30 - what a big and pleasant surprise to see you here on this community . Your Smartthings Edge driver for ALL these devices is the best thing that happened on that environment since the Edge project started, and it still works great. Regrettably, many other things that happened have forced us to try our luck with HASS.

I will have a look at your suggestion and try it out for sure - and many thanks for your response.

[Caesar21 (Martin Borg)]

@philh30 - wow! I mean if there was anyone who was going to be familiar with these switches, it was going to be you, of course

Yes, it worked. Started with the lifeline, the naming in the dropdown is absolutely misleading but yes, group 5 was the lifeline on the older 4-button switches, then moved on to switch-to-switch associations as per your instructions and it all works great now, indeed faster than Smartthings, so those are 2 showstoppers out of the way

Once again, a million thanks to you!

[EndUser]

Thanks so much…
This is the “controller”:

and these are the two devices that I want to be associated to the “controller”

[cornellrwilliams (Cornell Williams)]

Before you create the associations I would disable your automations. Under node 118 you should see a button titled groups. Click that to go to the groups page. One the groups page you should see an add button. You will need to create (2) new entries one for each device you want to control. Click add and select root endpoint for node endpoint then select [2] On/Off Control for the group. Then under target node select node 34 then click add. Now when you turn node 118 on and off node 34 will turn on and off.

[EndUser]

I don’t see On/Off Control for the Group

[philh30]

@Caesar21

Regrettably, many other things that happened have forced us to try our luck with HASS.

I jumped ship right around the new year. The choice was pretty easy when it got to the point that my ST hub was out of memory with just 12 drivers running. No regrets from me.

@Caesar21

the naming in the dropdown is absolutely misleading

The zwavejs config file that includes your models looks like it’s set up to match a newer model. It also lists a bunch of config options that may not be relevant to your older switches.

[philh30]

@EndUser

I don’t see On/Off Control for the Group

“[2] Local Load” is the same thing. Any other node added to that group will be turned on/off when you physically toggle this master switch. (Note the distinction - the other nodes won’t be affected if you turn the master on by z-wave.)

The other group - [3] Double Tap - will control other nodes when double tapping up or down on the master switch.

[EndUser]

Not working yet

[philh30]

Check whether the security level of the three nodes are the same. Association only works if both nodes are joined at the same security level. You can find it in the device menu in HA as shown below:

[chris.reeve4 (Chris Reeve)]

In regard to your note “the other nodes won’t be affected if you turn the master on by z-wave.” Is there a Grouping method that will link device control from both the physical device as well as z-wave?

I prefer not to have to Group and also have automations for z-wave control.

[philh30]

It depends on the device. Most z-wave devices only forward local/physical interactions to associated nodes. There are exceptions though - I have some of the new Inovelli Red dimmers that have a configuration parameter that you can set to also forward z-wave commands to associated nodes. I’m sure there are other devices with a similar feature, but it’s not common.

My solution to this would be to set up association to handle physical toggles. Then also set up a HA group helper to use on dashboards and in automations.

[EndUser]

When clicking on Node 36, Node 34 reacts (ON/OFF) but when clicking on Node 34 then Node 36 does nothing.