New to HA: small project; 5 rooms; 7 lights, 2 motion sensors; 1 light sensor; is my buy-list correct so far?

Hardware
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hello everyone :slight_smile:

first, i went through “how to help us help you” (there is no “philips hue” tag). i tried my best, so have mercy xD

I have 5 rooms, two of tham have 2 lights (bathroom and living room), the rest have 1. I want to have 2 motion sensors, one in hallway and one in the living room. the light sensor is also in the living room.

I searched on and of for aboutone to one and a half years and hit a wall where i have to ask ppl with experience.

I ended up choosing philips hue for all rooms but the bathroom. i want to use two “Yeelight Arwen 550S” in the bathroom. The living room and bedroom should get “Philips Hue White and Color Ambiance Infuse L”. The hallway and kitchen “Philips Hue White and Color Ambiance Infuse M”.
As sensors i want to take the philips hue indoor motion sensor that also has a light sensor integrated.
And of course a Philips Bridge.

As you see most of it is from Philips hue, except for 2 lamps, which led me to believe i need something to connect all that together → HA´. I chose the home assistant green for that, as it should suffice, but im not sure.

All i want to do is to have the light in the hallway automatically go on, because there are no windows and because depending at the time of day and / or brightness outside it would also change color and brightness. i like to have more warmer light, because my eyes are way to sensitive. need to use sunglases even at night, otherwise the car headlights would blind me. The rgb-part is just to have a bit more fun, all my rooms are white on purpose and shades of grey, so the lights are also there to put color into the rooms.
Oh, totally forgot about the switches. That i dont know. There are also several options from philips hue itself. For the kitchen i would use the normal button from philips, but for the bathroom and living romm? I have no idea.

So, did i do something wrong up to this point? like, if i even need HA, cause if the Yeelights could also be integrated into philips hue. Is there an alternative to all those philips products? (i did looked into this 6 months ago, its a rabbit hole and it overwhelmed me)

So yeah, send help plz xD

Thanks for reading.

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The Philips gear is expensive - I use some of it too so I understand the appeal but you could certainly find cheaper lights and sensors. If you do get Philips gear you can always transition it directly to home assistant with a zigbee dongle bypassing the need for your hub.

Regarding color: I have found that after initially playing around with color I always end up with various temperatures of white, generally warm white except in work spaces like laundry room where cooler white seems better. I only ever use color at my front porch for Holloween :grinning:

Regarding motion: I find motion sensors finicky. They time out and stop seeing you and then you have to get all fiddly with wait timers and such and even then sometimes it will turn off when you’re still sitting there. Look into occupancy/presence sensors which I find to be a better fit for me.

For switches I have tried to make it so that I don’t have to use them at all. My environment should adapt to my presence without having to push buttons like a cave-man. Most of my switch plates have Shelly relays behind them in detached mode to keep power on to my smart lights while providing analog switching if absolutely needed.

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Philips Hue is expensive, but it works.
If you have the Philips Hue bridge then that is enough for HA to connect and control it.

Regarding the motion sensors, then you need to specify what use case you have.
Is it to just turn the light on when someone enters the room or is it to keep the light on when someone is in the room?

A normal PIR sensor can turn the light on and reacts quickly, but if someone sits down and start to watch TV, then there might be no motion and the sensor will not detect the person anymore.
That means a PIR can be hard to use to turn off the light if persons are stationary in the room.

mmWave sensors, like the Aqara FP2, can detect small movements instead, like someone moving the chest to breathe, but mmWave sensors are generally slower to react.

Some sensors combine a PIR sensor with a mmWave sensor to achieve the best of both worlds (I can’t remember if the Aqara one does that though).

Regarding switches, then Philips Hue have their own products, but there is also a program called Friends of Hue for third party switches. These switches will work directly with the Philips Hue bridg and from there also be available in HA.
There are of course also switches for HA, which can then be used to control Philips Hue bulbs or whatever else that are imported into HA.

Many switches directly for HA use protocols like Zigbee and Z-wave, so you might need an USB radio stick to use such one. They are pretty cheap.
Philips Hue products are in fact Zigbee devices and if you choose a Zigbee stick, then you might actually pair your Philips Hue devices directly with HA and ditch the Philips Hue bridge.

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“…is my buy-list correct so far”?

You think there’s an end?

  1. Hue is expensive. So, money is no object?
  2. You almost NEVER need to buy the manufacture’s hub.
  3. Unless you absolutely must have color, smart bulbs are dumb. Except for color, there’s nothing that a smart switch controlling a cheap LED bulb can’t do cheaper.
  4. Avoid devices that require an internet connection to work. In almost every case there is an alternative that provides for local control. Just ask here before you buy.
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yes i have seen that philips hue is more expensive than others, but i realy dont know what other brand i should take then. thats what i ment before, i tried to find others, and did found a lot, too many. that overwhelmed me. like wiz for example. but in the end i dont know if it is as good as philips hue or not. that experience im lacking.
so its not just finding cheaper ones, its more like what one exactly of all the ones that are cheaper.

yes, i would say thats better and more suited to what i actually want. didnt know that exists. thanks :slight_smile:

that was my goal as well, but i didnt know how and till now i only knew about motion sensors, which i didnt want to put in every room. but with presence sensors its a different story. and when i do need to toggle something, i could use my smartphone, right?

but can i connect that to yeelight as well, or doesnt yeelight need a hub? those things still kinda confuse me.

i looked it up, that Aqara does combine those 2 sensors and it is directly connectable to HA with the homekit controller integration, whatever that is again xD

yes i noticed that as well and read a bit about zigbee. the biggest plus would be the zigbee mesh (according to their site) and that i dont need the philips hub. but the yeelight is not zigbee compatible, what im doing about that? however, my real problem is, that this would add another layer of complexity in regards to find all the things i want. that is also the biggest problem right now.

i went throuh it and i could buy it, but i did see that its not just expensive, but most expensive if im not mistaken so far. that did put me on hold in directly buying it and instead looking for a long time. since half a year i didnt made any progress, hence my post here. i finally wanna have lights in my rooms after 3 months of living here :slight_smile:

ok, but i do need A hub, right? so if i understand the other posts correctly the philips hub would connect to HA, as well as zigbee does. a year ago i found one hub that connects itself with dozens of different manufactures, but cant find it anylonger.

yes, i rly want color. you guys are probably right that i rarely would use it, but i also would be mad at myself when i dont do it now.

in my case right now only the philips hub and HA would connect to the internet, right? im a bit confused about that one, cause i didnt noticed that to be a problem. can you elaborate that? or is it just a general warning? so far i think that only 2 devices should connect to the internet if im not wrong.

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No, Yeelight Arwen looks like it use WiFi, so you connect it to your WiFi network and then control it throught the Yeelight integration in HA.
Integrations are the small pieces of code that makes HA able to talk to devices.

It is kinda like the driver for a piece of hardware in Windows.

Regarding cheaper lamps, then it is a bit hard to help with.
Lamps are also a question about designs and that is a subjective matter.
If it were light bulbs instead, then there are multiple tests.

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ah, ok. if you explain it like that it makes sense :rofl: and i kinda feel dumb not noticing it.

the “Home Assitant Green” is enough for my purpose right ? i mean i only have a few lights and sensors.

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That should be plenty for that job.

The hard part is often to stick to that job, because once you see the possibilities you will also be on the edge of the rabbit hole. :rofl:

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I have never used anything Phillips. I don’t own a hub. For Zigbee I use a SONOFF Zigbee 3.0 USB Dongle ($30 on Amazon). You plug this into a USB2.0 port on your Home Assistant server (I think you said you were getting the Green). Preferably at the end of a two-meter long USB extension cable. This is because the Zigbee protocol is very low power and your computer generates a lot of RF noise in the 2.4GHz RF spectrum. It’s also why you want USB2.0 because RF harmonics generated by the USB3 data rates also generates noise near 2.4GHz. This external noise makes it difficult for the Zigbee dongle to hear the low power signals from Zigbee devices.

You do not want a device that will not function without the Internet. Home Assistant with a Zigbee dongle couldn’t care less if you have Internet or not.

Here’s why it’s important.
In April 2022, Insteon suddenly shut down its cloud servers without any warning leaving tens of thousands of customers with non-functional smart home devices.

For Z-wave, I use the Aeotek Z-Stick Gen5 Z-Wave Hub. It works fine in a USB3 port since Z-wave operates in sub-1 GHz frequencies. This helps Z-Wave devices avoid interference from other wireless devices.

Neither of the dongles I use are in production today, but they work so there is no hurry to change them. (We call them dongles because that is physically what they are, and to differentiate from the much more expensive “required” manufacturer’s hub.

I may have mentioned that Home Assistant is organic. You will keep finding things to add. I have almost 100 different things controlled by Home Assistant and I recently thought of two more places that I can add switches for automation. My most complex automation is, tell Alexa to turn on theater. This turns off the lights in the kitchen and dining room, dims the lights in the family room and turns on the TV.

The limits are your imagination. (Welcome to the rabbit hole).

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Here you go. Pick anything you like that suits your budget Zigbee Home Automation - Home Assistant

1 Like
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Too much up there to easily unpack but regarding the HA Green: I just looked at it and it seems a nice way of dipping your toe in the water of Home Assistant for a low price point. Given where you are now I would suggest that you start with that and build out from there piece by piece. Someday you may want more capable hardware but no rush and small investment.

Get the Green and the optional ZBT (zigbee) dongle. That gets you wifi and zigbee as protocols you can use for devices.

Get one or two inexpensive presence/occupancy sensors - I have a couple FP2’s (wifi) for large spaces but expensive. I like the MmWave Human Presence Sensors by Tuya (zigbee) at $20 for normal/small spaces.

Get a couple of wifi or zigbee smart switches or relays or plugs to toggle the lights you are already using. Again, the entry price there is lower as you learn.

With the above you’re probably under $200 to get your project underway. You can add to it judiciously as you grow.

You are stressing the end points of your automation (lights) and you have picked top of the line and I bet that is part of your decision paralysis…adding all that up gets expensive and you don’t want to make a mistake and regret it later.

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first a rough sketch of my apartment, cause it think there is so much engagement here so you guys can see what im talking about.

Screenshot 2024-11-27 18.40.38
Screenshot 2024-11-27 18.40.382371×1213 50.4 KB

the yellow room is half storage romm with the freezer and the other half washing room with the washing machine and dryer on top. that room doesnt have a smart light and is out of the equation here.

above the yellow room is the kitchen with one very long counter top.
to the left is the living room.
to the left of the living room at the top is the bedroom and underneath the hallway (only room without a window).
the last room is the bathroom, with a high length to width ratio.

its all according to ratio, so if someone did the calculations, yes the bathroom is bigger than the bedroom. the apartment has roughly 65m².

the 2 by 2 squares with X’s are light fixtures.

Ok, im sold on that one. Hard to ignore after the third time mentioning it and its also being used a lot from what i see in other threads in that forum. But what i havent found is the many many other options aside from philips hue. im a bit “bewildered”. When i looked alternatives for philips hue in general there were kinda many, but when i want to actually buy them and find the pest price for them … kinda not many left. aside from the before mentioned Wiz and Yeelight, i find a lot of different alternatives in those articles, but those sound like random passwords being used as company names. Someone may have a few competitors at hand? But at least no one said no to Yeelight or Wiz, so that would be alternatives, but where i am looking they arent listed zigbee compatible. that already is my rabbit hole, before i reach the real rabbit hole xD.

but if i use zigbee for example, is there realy a need for z-wave? the amount of permutations between communcation standards and what can cummincate with what make my head explode xD

what i understood so far, i use zigbee to connect the (for now) philips hue with “HA Green” and yeelight is connected via wifi. i dont know exactly what the Aqara need for connection, at least it says nothing on its page about zigbee or zwave, but it does say it doesnt need a hub. So its connected with wifi. your other sensor by Tuya also uses zigbee.

that kinda sums it up. i landed at this point because all the sources i had did list alternatives, but they all had one or more flaws, according to those sources. thats why i stuck with philips. if it now turns out i would be fine with all yeelight, then i dont need any philips to begin with, however, im not sure how good the wifi is to sustain that. will check that this weekend. and that i kinda see no other options here, except for the fact that kinda everyone says there are a lot of xD
that was the point when i stoped frustrated everytime i try to get a hold of it the past years. hence im here now to force my way through with help. im at a point where i dont know what to do.

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With that size of apartment, you shouldn’t run into issues with either wifi or zigbee.
Buy the ZBT-1 dongle, stick it on a usb extension cable - the ideal place for it would be the leftmost part of your pc table (the part closest to the hallway door).
That should get you practically a straight line of sight to all rooms except the bedroom. Not that line of sight is required, but it might help make things simpler

If you’re unsure of whether a particular device is compatible with zigbee, I’d search here. Any device with a HomeAssistant logo is confirmed to be working with ZHA. Yes, there’s loads of random-password-sounding names, but it doesn’t mean they still won’t work. It will be up to you to research each device model before buying to make sure people are happy with their choices.

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Philips Hue vs Wiz - Hue is zigbee (Hue Hub is a zigbee hub), Wiz is wifi like your Yeelight and many others.

You can do an Amazon search for “smart light bulbs” and there are a LOT of choices, some are throw-away cheap and some more expensive. Just tune in to how they connect: zigbee, wifi, bluetooth.

For occupancy, the Aqara FP2 is wifi (homekit) so no need for their hub, the Tuya I linked is zigbee.

Whatever you choose check if there is a home assistant integration to support them so you’re not stuck using a manufacturer app on your phone.

Something you might not have considered - how are your current lights controlled? I suspect a physical wall switch, right? No smart bulb will work if the switch is off. To be smart they must be always powered. This is why I was suggesting you put off the lighting part of your project and focus on getting the automation working on the lights you have.

Most people choose smart control of dumb light bulbs at the switch or plug level. If you want smart bulbs/fixtures you will need to address the switching issue first. I do that with Shelly relays in the switch box. Alternatively you could just tape the toggle switch in the “on” position :grinning:

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No. I was just illustrating what I use. But, if you fall into this rabbit hole, you will eventually have Z-wave, Zigbee and WiFi devices.

Please elaborate. Of the three protocols mentioned here, WiFi has the greatest range. Zigbee the shortest. Most consumer “All-in-one” routers, especially the ISP provided ones, will crap out after 50 or 60 clients. (They just don’t have enough memory for the routing tables for more clients than that). However if your Zigbee network is mostly made of mains powered devices, then they will act as routers which will strengthen your Zigbee network. Battery-powered Zigbee devices usually act only as end-devices and not as routers. If your Zigbee devices are marginal (weak signal strength), then you need to inject a router device physically between Zigbee devices. I have Third Reality switches scattered all over the house only for the benefit of router. No device is more than three meters from a router and my Zigbee network is very robust.

If you REALLY must have color control (shaking my head), you can turn the wall switch on and put a Sabbath cover over the switch.

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And Matter and Thread and RF and IR and HomeKit…and…and… :smiley:

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Don’t confuse the OP further.

Matter is far, far from a mature protocol. Matter devices don’t need the cloud for basic functions like on or off, but the cloud is required for “advanced” features such as over-the-air (OTA) updates, telemetry data, remote management, and integration with proprietary vendor services. Watch that last feature. I assure you that Matter device designers are designing “must have” features that will only be available if you also buy their hub.

Thread is a mesh network over WiFi. Can a matter/thread device function without thread? I don’t know, but I am not anxious to find out since Matter devices tend to be more expensive than similar Zigbee or Z-wave devices.

RF is used in low-frequency devices. Mostly 433MHz or in Europe 915MHz. Its advantage is even longer range than WiFi. It is a much older protocol than WiFi. I have a few 433MHz devices here but only because I am too lazy to replace them with similar Zigbee devices.

IR is mostly used by some appliances like Televisions that can only be controlled with an IR remote. I have a couple of Broadlink RF-4 pucks to send and receive IR to my televisions.

and…and… No doubt there will be more protocol developments in the future as developers figure out how to profit from them. Fiber in the home is happening (if you are wealthy)