No Neutral Switches in the US - anything?

OK folks. I’ve been reading the forums here and over at Smartthings for a couple of weeks now getting familiar with HA and how I might grow my “ecosystem”. Also, sorry for the wall of text, I’m still figuring things out. As the saying goes, “I don’t know what I don’t know.”

Here’s my core problem (you’ve all heard this before, I think.) My house was built in the 1950’s, and US code at the time did not require (and my house does not have) a neutral line at light switches. Since there seems to be a bit of a terminology difference in the US vs EU, what I’m talking about is that my light switches only have two actual wires in the box - one wire that is live from the mains and another out to the lamp - think like the old knife switches in your science labs. (Does anyone use those anymore?)

So! What I’m looking for is a switch or dimmer that will:

  • work without a neutral wire
  • fit in a US “single gang” box
  • has a physical switch that allows for manual control of the light (in parallel)
  • Supports LED’s and/or CFL.

I started with this thread:
Smartthings thread
…but it’s over 2 years old now, and things change fast.

At the moment, it looks like this is maybe the only “current production” candidate for me.Jasco (maybe GE?) 45716

The problem is that it doesn’t seem to support anything but incandescent bulbs, and doesn’t seem to be supported by Jasco anymore (at least, I couldn’t find a reference to that part number on the Jasco site.)

There are other options that I’ve researched - for instance the Aeotech Nano Dimmer or the Fibaro 212 Dimmer which both supposedly don’t need a neutral wire. This is a bit of a “must” for me for family reasons (as in if I don’t have this, I won’t have a family any more :joy: )

Technically what I’m assuming is happening in these units is that the dimmer switch doesn’t actually turn power completely off in “OFF” mode, it allows just enough power “through” to power the box. OK, I can live with that as long as the light’s not on and I remember that come bulb-change time. (Oh, and both have minimum wattage requirements that might be an issue, but I can deal with that too.)

I’m kind of focusing on the Aeotech unit right now, because it’s slightly smaller. A couple of things, though. The Aeotech unit user guide talks about a “touch panel” capability, but the only “touch panel” I can find only talks about the “Micro” unit (3 wire) not the Nano (2 wire) unit. (This one here note that it only has one button, though. Also, it appears that if I hook up a OG light switch to these, I’ll always be chasing my tail as to what is controlling the load (in other words, what happens if the automation is off when the switch is on?)

So, two questions:

  1. Has anyone tried the Jasco 45716 (or the -17, the only difference appears to be the color?) Any chance it will work with LED’s or CFL’s?

  2. Is anyone using the Aeotech Nano unit with the touch panel, and does it work?

Any suggestions I missed here? New products? How about if I move beyond Z-Wave?

If I’m SOL on all that, here’s my Plan B, There’s a wiring diagram in the Nano documentation that has two switches (S1 and S2 here).
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It appears that they are set up to dim/control the circuit (makes sense). Would using this just be as easy as me wiring in two momentary pushbuttons? (Or can I get some sort of wall plate with two momentary pushbuttons already attached?) Or does this setup require the switches to remain closed in operation (like old analog circuitry?)

Anyway, looking forward to getting to know all you folks, and sorry for the noob questions. I suspect they won’t be my last! :rofl:

Thanks in advance,

Richard Perry

One followup that I found JUST after I posted this:

It appears that as per this link Aeotech has not yet released the Touch Panel the Nano talks about.

And at this rate, I don’t think they’re going to release it “in 2017”, either. Anyone have an idea when this might arrive?

Thanks again -

Richard Perry

you can use most z-wave dimmers. I’m in Australia but I’m sure the US versions would be the same. The ones I use only interface to the live and switched live wires and then have a separate set of terminals where you wire in a local switch / pushbutton. The type I have allow for the wiring of either two buttons, one for dim up and one for dim down, OR you can use just one button and the functionality changes. I use one button and if the light is off, a single / short press will turn it on to the previously set brightness. Once on, pressing and holding will dim up, release and do this again to dim down, short press again to turn off. I’m pretty sure the Aeotech dimmers can do this. You dont need the Aeotec touch panel.

Since you asked about moving beyond Z-Wave, (I also use SmartThings and hear there that) many people use Lutron Caseta. You will, unfortunately, need another bridge on your network, but HASS can integrate with it via the lutron_caseta component. I haven’t tried it so I can’t say how it works, but most Caseta products do not require a neutral wire, so they are another option. They also work with most LEDs, which many neutral-less products don’t (due to the issues you mentioned–they sneak a little power through to the light to keep the “smart” components always powered without a neutral in box). FWIW, if you just want something automated but don’t really need it “smart,” the Maestro line is a bit cheaper but most also work without neutrals. (That’s what I did in my laundry room for a while—light on with motion, then off after it stops, and that’s it.)

The Aeon mini and micro switches, which you have seen, are other options. I’ve seen in the ST community that some people put these at the fixture rather than the switch, since there is obviously a neutral there if there isn’t in the wall (the older ones did require a neutral; I actually didn’t know the newest didn’t). This is not a listed use so I’d do it at your own risk, but some people have apparently done it–but I’m not sure how that affects the wall switches, which it sounds like you’ll still need.

A different option is the Ecolink TLS-ZWAVE5, which replaces the cover plate on any standard single-gang toggle switch and basically just offers a way to move the existing switch for you over Z-Wave. It also allows physical control at the switch via an up/down slider for on/off (which you can probably see in pictures). It’s battery-powered, sticks out a bit from the wall (since it basically just sits on top of the existing switch), and doesn’t work with decora switches (DLS-ZWAVE5 is supposed to, but I don’t see that available yet) or multi-gang boxes, but doesn’t require any re-wiring so it obviously works without a neutral. It makes a bit of noise when the motor moves the switch and there’s a tiny delay, but these might be OK trade-offs depending on your use case. I have working with ST and bought one for HASS (which I’m slowly moving most devices to from ST), and both work well. Switchmate is another option but isn’t compatible with HASS (or ST or most third-party services) yet. I imagine it will be when they release their Zip hub (if they have an API or it’s easily reverse-engineered) or, if you feel super-unofficial, he reverse-engineered Bluetooth code a couple developers seem to have been working on starts functioning (they updated the firmware recently and broke this) again.

If you’re willing to look beyond Z-wave, the Lutron Caseta system has a two-wire switch: either model PD-5S-DV-WH or PD-5WS-DV-WH (I’m honestly not sure what the difference is between the 5S and the 5WS, except the 5S seems to be cheaper).

On Amazon the 5S is item no. B00NCEMBIA and I have used it very successfully in similar circumstances to yours (old house, boxes without neutral). It works great. It even comes with an optional capacitive dummy load that you can attach across your actual load if the switch doesn’t work. As you note, if your load doesn’t conduct when turned off, the switch won’t get any power. The dummy load solves that problem. Most LED bulbs don’t seem to need it, but some do.

(Don’t worry about the extra wire in the Amazon photo - that’s a traveler wire if you want to use it in a three-way installation. It’s not needed for use in a single location, and you can just cap it off.)

BEWARE of the 6-amp alternative, model PD-6ANS-WH. This one DOES require a neutral line in the box.

The Caseta dimmers I think are all two-wire. They don’t come with the dummy load, though, so your results may vary depending on what bulbs you use.