Recessed Lighting Retrofit

Hello all,

I’m looking at replacing some CFLs with smart LEDs in the can lights on my front porch. The porch ceiling is finished in stucco, and I don’t want to do any mods that would require stucco repairs. I plan to move the inner cans (either up or down) to access the CFL ballasts and disconnect/remove them. I can then wire the new smart LEDs directly to the 120V mains.

I am still a newbie and my Home Assistant system is still in its infancy. I have a dedicated PC server and a few wi-fi devices and a handful of ZigBee devices (using ZHA). I have avoided Z-Wave just to limit the number of protocols I’m supporting.

So, I’ve been looking for the ideal devices for my situation. They would be smart LED recessed lights that fit into the existing Halo 5" can lights. The trim rings would need to be about 6" (plus/minus). If they have color correction (CCT) for the whites, that would be nice, but not required. I would prefer ZigBee devices that integrate easily into HA for local control. (My Wi-Fi is spotty in that outside location.)

So far, my search has been pretty unsuccessful. I have scoured Amazon, AliExpress and this forum as well. I checked the ZigBee Device Repository suggested by nickrout in a previous post.

Most of the products I found are designed for ceiling installation without cans. That is, you cut a hole in the ceiling and the spring clips on the device clamp on to the back side of the drywall. Review of these devices often state the spring clips don’t hold well when installed in cans. Many of the devices I found were 4" diameter, which don’t cover the 5" hole. The ones that are called out as 5/6" are often too large in diameter to fit inside the 5" hole. I’m hoping someone out there has gone down this path before and has device ideas.

My first back-up plan involves going with WiFi devices and improve my reception on the front porch. The Halo retrofit looks like a very good fit. I’d like to hear if others have integrated it into HA successfully.

The second back-up plan involves modifying cans to add a standard E26 light bulb socket. I could then select among the many available smart light bulbs.

Would love to hear opinions from others on the forum. Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards,
Karl

I don’t think I have a pat answer for your upgrade, however will share an upgrade I did 2 years ago and what I am seeing in the lighting market now. Maybe this will give you some ideas for a path.

The LED light retrofit market is right at the beginning a tsunami, that is cool but frustrating. On a daily basis there are new light devices/forms appearing.

On the network dimension, from my view point in the 120 volt USA market, only Hue and Ikea seems to be bringing out new devices with Zigbee radios. And most of these devices, if they come to 120 volts, come with a 6 to 24 month delay from release in ROW. Matter/Thread will probably improve this, but I think 12 to 24 months away. This for the radio issue, but USA market will still be electric power challenged even then. Make sure to carefully read the specs to make sure the device is 120 volt, many are not.

I know you seems to prefer zigbee, I get it, but the interesting products that are hitting the market now are wifi and bluetooth based. With bluetooth mesh really rocketing forward right now. I am guessing wifi popular due to the super low cost Tuya MCU’s. And bluetooth mesh, due to the new low cost BLE chips at now support mesh and will slot into a Matter mod’ed firmware relative easily and quickly. These new BLE mesh devices seems, so far, much less ‘hacky’ to create a totally local control setup, where your lights never need to go the cloud. This area as well requires you to really check (and test) before you commit.

Side topic, metal cans from my experience can be a challenge. Wifi really seems to drop, makes sense as they have to home run back to a access point, BLE mesh seems to work much better (and zigbee would as well I think) if your cans are ‘relatively’ close in spacing to neighbors.

On the physical light front, especially in the ‘in ceiling’ can type devices and the ‘mount on ceiling’ flat panel (and hanging too) these are were the new Tuya wifi and BLE mesh devices are really starting to appear. Unfortunately, or fortunately if you are willing to spend/waste some coin on trial devices and beer/wine :wink: , your porch will be filled with daily deliveries from Amazon/Bangood/AliExpress …

I will finish my babble with my experience story and one bit of advice.

On the advice front, whatever devices you end up with, buy enough ‘extras’ to keep your system running and consistent for whatever lifetime you think you want and add a year. Because, whatever device you buy, will ‘be gone’ and unavailable (fill in blank) in ____ years when one or more of the devices fails. While LED’s are robust, heat and electronics (and cheap parts) are a reality in these ‘one off’ devices that have no replaceable parts often.

My, maybe close to your challenge, experience was a kitchen ceiling with four dual tube CFL ‘shop’ lights behind custom panels in the ceiling. Installed 30+ years ago. I found some LED panels that fit in the holes left behind by the CFL just fine with a small custom ‘fingers’ attached to the back of the panels. These LED panels have proprietary 2.4 GHz remotes and support color temp (good but not great), dimming and most important : one remote controlling 4 panels. I was able to Rube Goldberg a custom ESP32 that Home Assistant uses to ‘press’ the buttons on of the 4 remotes I ended up with in a total custom electronics circuit ‘hack’. I don’t recommend this path. But the bad news / good news is that you can not longer find these panels to buy, but I have two extras squirreled in the garage. And now there appear to be really good quality non-proprietary ‘smart’ LED CFL tubes with good CRI if any of the neighbors who have exactly the same 60’s kitchens want advice… And finally to your ‘don’t touch the plaster’ requirement, I was really sweating screwing up the ceiling and have having to patch the ceiling plaster board and repaint the whole kitchen as I ‘dropped’ these 30 pound steel CFL enclosures. Fortunately, I was successful, and with the help of a carpenter create some relative low cost frames that matched and covered the rough in holes to a tee. I do recommend wearing a mask, as I probably sucked in enough asbestos to coat a battleship. If you are a younger man than I, you might want to make a deposit at your local ‘seed bank’ before you start :wink:

Hope you find a good solution in this wild lighting west, 24 months later, I am pretty happy with what I ended up with. But took a lot of sweat equity and has lead me to watch this dynamic market with much interest. Good hunting!

P.S. I know this is not even close to what you want, but here is an example of the stuff appearing daily, note how only one of the the three form factors seems to support voltages down to 85 volts, others do not…:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804451953698.html

Thanks for the reply and your suggestions regarding the current protocols for lighting, David.

Most of the available lighting choices I see are wi-fi based. As I mentioned in my original post, wi-fi would be an acceptable path, but I am concerned about loading up my 2.4GHz channel with IoT devices. My exterior ceiling location has wire mesh behind a stucco finish and a metal can light. I don’t know if I could design a better Faraday cage in an area with spotty wi-fi reception already.

The Bluetooth mesh technology looks interesting, but looks like it is just beginning to show up in the home automation market. I have a love/hate relationship with today’s Bluetooth, so I’m a bit hesitant to be an early adopter in this space. Pairing multiple devices has always been an issue for me.

Which again brings me around to ZigBee. Scouring the forum for more info on ZigBee based lighting devices, I found a few posts with the same problem … switched lights. When turned on with mains power, the ZigBee light acts as an endpoint device (LED) and as a repeater. It joins the network and builds out the mesh network. When the light is switched off, the repeater is lost and the mesh reroutes. When the light is switched on again, the cycle repeats. The changing availability of the repeater function was purported to cause intermittent problems for some users.

To the rescue is one vendor of ZigBee smart LEDs … Sengled. They identify this problem in their product literature and intentionally exclude the ZigBee repeater functionality in their smart bulbs. I have bought a few and will test them out before a full scale commitment. Will post results.

cheers,
Karl

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Hi Karli,

I am in a very similar situation to you, less the stucco. I have a new home (built it six years ago), and have a ton of the same Halo 5" cans. I run ZHA and have fantastic wifi coverage thanks to planning when I built.

I’m not opposed to changing out my dumb switches for smart. I’m now possibly looking to stay away from ZigBee unless they’re missing the repeater (as you mentioned).

I want to swap some RGB recessed lights into those cans, but have analysis paralysis thanks to uncertainty regarding what will work. Did you end up trying those Halo Wi-Fi WiZ Pro lights? What have you tried?

Also, thank you for the knowledge drop in this thread, @dproffer. Much appreciated.

-AutoRobo

So which bulb model (or models) are you testing at the moment? LInk? I am trying to visualize.