Recomended smart TRVs for a multizone heating system compatible with HA

Hardware
1

I am trying to upgrade the heating system in my home.

It is a central system, with a relay at the entry of the home that can be put on/off to cut hot water coming to the radiators or open it.
The radiators have thermostatic TRVs that regulate water flow depending on the internal thermostat.

I would like to upgrade it to a smart system.

I have tried buying a EQ3 bluetooth TRV and using a ESP32 to control it (I have tried tasmota).
But there are issues with it, the valve is not always detected, after a firmware upgrade it seems that cannot accept commands (as it needs to be paired)ā€¦ so I am looking for alternatives, economical and that can be integrated with HA as easily as possible.

My requirementes would be:

  • It should work in an isolated LAN with no internet access.
  • I should be able to integrate it in HA and control it from it, but I should also be able to change mode from the device (or a controller).
  • It would be great if the system could operate independently, even if HA is down (based in MQTT messages or similar system).
  • It should be multizone, each zone controlled by a controler thermostat (I plan to use esp32 with tasmota or espHome) that regulates operation of the valves when the temperature goes out of range.
    Alternatively the valves can be autonomous but be able to get the temperature from a configurable device and not internal thermostat.
  • It should be as cheap as possible.
  • The valves should consume low battery, the batteries should last a whole year at least (that is why I would avoid wifi valves).

I have read a lot. but did not find a clear solution.
There are many smart valves but most of them operate from a phone app and need to be connected to internet which I want to avoid.

Zigbee seems a good options, but systems based on it seem to implement it in a propietary way and devices from one brand seem to not integrate well with a hub of another brand.

Zigbee thermostats seem to be expensive, I would like to use an esp32 if possible, each for each room.

Any idea?
Have you implemented a similar system?

2

Iā€™m looking for the exact same thing and I came to a first conclusion that tado is probably my choice.
Have a look at this video!

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3

Tado is a quite expensive system, and it seems to be a propietary zigbee system (I am not sure about this, but is seems that zigbee devices for one brand cannot usually connect to zigbee hubs of another).

I would like to integrate the system with other kind of devices.

I would like to base it in MQTT in order to be able to integrate many kind of devices.

May be using a zigbee2MQTT devices is the right way to do it, but I am not sure.

If I understand it well, zigbee2MQTT acts as a zigbee hub and a zigbee to wifi/MQTT bridge.

You can use a RPi or similar device and atache a usb zigbee dongle, then all messages in zigbee are converted to mqtt.

I have found this valves that seem economic and zigbee based (they sell a zigbee hub too).

AVSTAR - VĆ”lvula termostĆ”tica para radiadores, para aƱadir Comfort y Ahorro de climatizaciĆ³n, con Control Remoto WiFi a travĆ©s de Pasarela Zigbee, para (VĆ”lvula TermostĆ”tica (TRV)) : Amazon.es: Bricolaje y herramientas

But I am not sure if it can be integrated with HomeAssistant

4

I have also tried the EQ3 Bluetooth TRVs and was not happy with them. I switched to the EQ3 HomematicIP TRVs and thermostats with a CCU and itā€™s been working great for several years now. I use the HomematicIP (Local) integration https://github.com/danielperna84/custom_homematic which is excellent.

1 Like
5

Please, may you develop a bit more?

Homematic seems to be a system of eq3.

But is it zigbee? a propietary wireless protocol?

Are the TRV cheaper than other zigbee ones?
Does it have very low power consuption like zigbee?

I donā€™t like propietary systems, but if they can be well integrated in HA and have some benefitsā€¦

I have been reading more about it. And it seems a propietary IPv6 based protocol from EQ3.

It is another propietary system based on cloud services, which I want to avoid completly (all iot devices will be isolated in a lan with no internet connection).

Even the HA integretion seems to use cloud system and it seems that there is a problem now as EQ3 is blocking IP address of systems that connect too often (as it seems HA plugin does).

I donā€™t want to be in the hands of a single vendor nor provide him any info about my home devices.

It is getting a difficult task to find a system that lets you do that.

6

You can find out more about it here as the range of devices is huge: https://homematic-ip.com/en

There are two main ranges: Homematic IP which is wireless and runs on 868.3 MHz - it is proprietary and will not speak directy to other wireless protocols.
The second is Homematic IP Wired which uses cable to connect the devices.
There is a cloud-based controller but I do not use or recommend this.

A German company sells the range and for example you can see prices for TRVs here https://de.elv.com/search?sSearch=e-trv A single HMIP-eTRV-2 costs about ā‚¬60.

The TRVs are battery powered and batteries seem to last about 18 months for me.

The controller software can be run on a Raspberry Pi or you can use the RaspberryMatic CCU add-in for HA as I do. You then just need a radio module to talk to your devices.

1 Like
7

Thank you.

But with the controller software running in the local lan, do you need any connection to the cloud services in order to operate or configure the devices?

I had read of problems with eq3 blocking IPs from people using homematic homeassistant.

But it seems that there is a new version that does not use the cloud.

In such a case, it seems interesting.

Not cheap, but cheaper than Tadoā€¦ I can find them in 40ā‚¬ā€¦

I donā€™t like propietary systems, but although zigbee is a standard protocol it seems that implementations of many systems are not compatible among them.

Thank you I will take this system into account.

8

It all runs locally if you use the CCU option or the RaspberryMatic add in, which are functionally the same. The add in option is cheaper as you do not have to buy a CCU, just the radio module.

You may need to open a few ports for the CCU option to give HA access, but this is well documented.

For the most accurate results, use a thermostat with the TRV in each room. They can be grouped together so that thermostat temperature controls the TRV.

Definitely explore all your options first ā€“ I tried Z-Wave, ELV-3 Max , ELV-3 Bluetooth and ELV-3 Homematic non-IP devices before settling on Homematic IP!

There is a steep learning curve with Homematic, but itā€™s worth the effort.

Pat

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9

Tado:
Instead of ZigBee there is 6LoWPAN
Can run locally via HomeKit Controller

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10

https://www.shelly.cloud/en/products/shop/shelly-trv

Wifi, should have MQTT

11

That was my plan when I replied to @ariznaf.
Using all local, based on HomeKit (and I know that Iā€™ll miss the scheduling but with my vaillant thermostat, it is the same. The scheduling is cloud based).

ā€œTomorrowā€, Iā€™d like to convert it to opentherm (a 100ā‚¬ module vr33 to connect to my boiler) and put TRVs everywhere but one bypass (unfreeze position in my hallway) and Iā€™ll investigate about

and

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12

Thanks.

So TADO is based in 6LoWPAN ā€¦good to know.

6LoWPAN seems a good system, but it seems to be slower than zigbee and not so widespred.

It uses IPv6 addresses which means that devices are adressable from internet, something that sounds good but not desired for a home network.

I know that you can block it, but it is better if the system is not globally addressable like zigbee.

The problem with zigbee is that it uses 2.4 GZh if I am not wrong, competing with wifi.
6LoWPAN seems to use 866 MHZ, slower but with more range.

It is not easy to select a communication system for devices, and it is yet harder to know which protocol and comm system uses a given brand (they usually do not make publicity of it).

I will have to investigate a bit more about comm systems and protocols, there are more than expected.

May be z-wave is a good alternative, I have to investigate it.

But it does not seem to be to popular in valves (at least the ones that I can see in amazon use zigbee, bluetooth and wifi mainly, well and 6LoWPAN like Tado or homematic IP in EQ3).

Too many options and decisions, not easy.

May you give info about different brands, its communication system, software protocol and where they can work or not in an isolated lan?

I would like to make a table like

BRAND Hardware protocol software protocol cloud based may work locally homeassistant integration

For now I will try to get my eq3 bluetooth valve to work and simulate the control system with an esp32 with tasmota and a relay and integrate it in homeassitant.

Thanks to all for your answers I will keep hearing and investigating options provided.

13

Especially because it is also very costly. Youā€™ll hope that itā€™ll almost be the investment of a ā€œlife timeā€ or, at least, for a long time.

1 Like
14

Exactly, thatā€™s it.

My eq3 valve cost me 19ā‚¬ in a sale, and I can make tests with esp32ā€¦ but now they costs about 45ā‚¬ each, if I buy half a dozen and then cannot put it to workā€¦

Zigbee or other alternatives are quite more expensive, and their are many propietary options that only work well cloud based and using their phone app (I donā€™t like depending in my phone for everything).
And you need a gateway and a homeassistant controller ā€¦ that would cost 500ā‚¬ in total, not good if then it does noot work as expected.

It would open doors to new posibilities.

Not easy, that is why I am trying to evaluate pros and cons in advance.

15

Iā€™ve implemented a system like this and have been experimenting with it for years. My house is quite old and large, with three heating zones. I started with Danfoss but switched to Devolo out of frustration, as the Danfoss LC-13 doesnā€™t report temperature. The Devolo is essentially a Danfoss with upgraded firmware, enabling it to report temperature back.

The valves are quite remarkable; if provided with a supply of hot water, they do an excellent job of maintaining the set temperature. Iā€™ve verified this with independent temperature probes (Sonoff, which are cheap and reliable). My biggest frustration has been determining the optimal time to start the boiler. I chose a specific room as the primary control and set its TRV to 28Ā°C (the maximum set point). The system calls for hot water when the temperature drops below 23Ā°C and stops when it rises above 23Ā°C. This one-degree hysteresis seems to work well.

However, Iā€™m frustrated by not being able to fully open the valve in the designated ā€˜kingā€™ room. Occasionally, the open window feature interferes, causing the boiler to run while the TRV is closed. Iā€™ve partially mitigated this by placing a Sonoff temperature probe on top of each radiator.

My second biggest issue is instability in the Z-Wave software. Itā€™s improving, but I still face challenges with multiple devices appearing on Home Assistant (HA), which I havenā€™t resolved yet. Occasionally, a HA update disrupts the Z-Wave network. I find Zigbee far more reliable (and less expensive) in comparison.

16

For who might buy a started kit from Amazon Italy or France, it is in a major discount right now.
image

Around 130ā‚¬ instead of 250ā‚¬.