Safety Question

I’m hoping this is okay to ask here. I recently picked up Kasa switches to integrate. They require a neutral wire. My current switch is def just line load, but there are a ton of other wires that are jammed into the box as well. So I’m kinda curious of 2 things… based on this pic, do you think I have a neutral wire? And do I need to call my landlord to come clean this up? It looks like the previous owner did work on it themselves and I think the exposed wires are prolly unsafe?! Any help is appreciated… 20220524_140629|281x500

What part of this planet are we?
Some countries have just bare copper wire as the ground cable.

You could measure with a multimeter what the cables are but there are obvious risks involved so don’t do it if you are not sure what you are doing.

That box looks typical for Northamerica 110.

If so, the bundle of white wires would be neutrals and the bare copper grounds.

That said.

If you cannot identify the neutral bundle I would STRONGLY suggest consultation with a qualified electrician /your landlord.

And NEVER trust wire colors. Always double check line, load, neutral and ground with a meter. Also if thats not in your skill set see my previous recommendation.

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If the bare wires are a ground wire, there is not so much wrong. Not nice, just really ugly. In Europe it will not pas an inspection. But not that dangerous, if no one moves with it.
If they are live wires, it is unacceptable.

Please, have an electrician look at it, he will determine, what is what and maybe make it somewhat better.

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If you have to ask then don’t mess with it.

electricity kills or can burn down your (the landlords) house.

That said I’m not even sure i would tell the landlord what you saw. I think most (if not all) landlords frown on tenants doing unauthorized wiring changes. I know I would and for the above reasons. So they will ask you how you knew it was like that and might end up badly for you.

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Oh…
Most switches can run without the neutral if you have a bypass at the light. I have one of my ZigBee switches wired that way.
The others have neutral wires pulled down (or up) to them, it’s not hard to do, you just have to know what you are doing and be qualified if it should be legal.

Here is a bypass, not sure this will work for you though.

In my experience @Hellis81 in the US (at least Northamerica - which I’m betting this is because of the look of that box) While dumb switches don’t need a neutral - most SMART switches available in the US can NOT work without neutral. (Im almost positive this has something to do with someone’s patent, on no-neutral devices, Probably Leviton…) I know for a fact TP-link Kasa devices need a neutral.

Now that I’m home and can see the picture better - I’m almost positive this is a US 110 box, it looks like it has a neutral. (Neutrals have been required in the US in most jurisdictions since the early '90s when it was added to the US electrical code.)

The problem op is going to have here is space - that’s an older ‘standard’ new-work box and in most cases they’re not deep enough to fit modern smart switches because of the way the terminals work - sticking out of the back of the switch. (and yes in a Jasco or similar style smart switch it is proper to use the back connections instead of the side screws - because it’s a screw down terminal designed to work that way instead of a pressure-fit stab in.)

Retrofitting that junction box behind tile - will be FUN. (not.) In a rental - I would NOT attempt it.

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I did electrical professionally. My issue is the exposed wires. I never did lighting, but I’ve done automobile electrical, I’ve done outlets, and Fire Alarm is what I did for many years. Never have I come across a box with this much debris in it, nor open wires. That was my main concern.

I feel ya. It’s nasty - yes. But those exposed are grounds. Not worried.

Debris on the other hand I’m used to seeing. Usually the drywall guys come through after the electrical is complete and there’s drywall mud EVERYWHERE. Drywall guys blame sparkys, sparkys blame drywall, and the painters spray the whole lot with cheap paint. :sunglasses:

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Thank you, yes it is def US standard. Should have included this info myself, I apologize, I posted while working. I figured they were the neutral I needed. I think there is a huge possibility it will fit, these Kasa ones seem to be not very deep. Your right though, def not going to retrofit though.

Do NOT trust the colors. Test everything before attempting.

And again. Rental… YOU are now responsible for whatever happens to that box. Plan accordingly. :slight_smile:

Source : I used to be a fire investigator

Edit: WWRIPF

What will my rental insurance pay for?

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I’m aware. Thank you for the heads up. I plan to use my multimeter to ensure that they are neutral. Wouldn’t want to hook up to hot. Definitely know not to trust colors as well, nobody seems to follow any standards on them, I’ve come across cars with the wrong colors everywhere to learn that.

I was having trouble with the light anyway, so I put in a work order for a tech to come out, the guy is pretty cool, so I’m just going to have him put them in for me, he needs to swap my circuit breaker anyway, it’s warped and causing my lights to flicker, I think the house settled and caused a short.

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An alternate solution - get switch, move new house under it???

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Did you just suggest moving haha? That was pretty good. I need a house with AC anyway.

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I’m kinda new to using HA forums and posting. Do I need to hit “solved” somehow?

If you think, you got the right answer, that is good enough for you, go back to that answer and check the “solution” box :wink:

Well, I have a solution box on every other post, just not this one. So thanks and credit to @NathanCu

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