Ah, I get it. Ok, so the value turns positive at 3AM but the automation should only trigger when additionally the condition “sun has risen” is met. That works then, because since the window is north-east, it is hit by the sun rising.
Actually, I will instead set a condition “sun elevation > XX” because there are buildings around etc, hence the sun does not hit the blinds immediately at sunrise.
The equation takes care of the angle if you have entered your local measurements. All the condition is doing is telling HA to ignore the trigger if it occurs between sunset and sunrise.
yes, but after sunrise and before elevation=10, no sun can hit the blinds (yet) because of buildings on the other side of the road. The equation cannot account for this I assume.
Ahh - okay that makes sense. If the elevation is the same value all year, that is a simple fix.
I have an issue with two of my blinds with the sun setting. At certain times of the year, one blind is in shadow much sooner than the one next to it, because of the shape and alignment of our neighbour’s house. In the middle of summer, the setting sun comes off both blinds at the same elevation, but in winter there is an 8-degree difference.
not exactly, but close enough. I won’t 3D model the buildings around our street to build the trigonometric equation that models this. Your equation is already beyond what I remember from school.
There you go! AutoCAD, and a 10-lines trigonometric expression to model this =)
Or a solar sensor on the wall, that’s maybe even better, as it will take into account real time cloudiness.
so something is not working for me. The formula turns negative when the sun’s azimuth is roughly ten degrees further than the azimuth of the wall.
Template:
- sensor:
- name: AngleSunLeftBlind
state_class: measurement
icon: mdi:blind
state: >
{{(state_attr('sun.sun','elevation') - atan(1330/(200/(sin( pi/180 * (state_attr('sun.sun','azimuth') - 141))))) * 180/pi) | round(1)}}
As you can see in the formula, the wall’s azimuth is 141. But the formula turns positive when the sun’s azimuth is 151 roughly, which is obviously wrong.
Do you see a typo in my formula somewhere? I checked it many times, but I can’t find an error.
ah, I think it’s like the sun rise, this is not accounted for in the formula, so I need an additional trigger/condition:
Closing blind:
Opening blind:
That should work for any window then.
Great job! and definitively a good source of inspiration!
I however took a slightly different approach for the same issue.
I’ve decided to calculate the shadow length vs the overhang to determine if the light was entering or not the house/window.
Here was my line of thought:
Shadow length is only a function of Sun elevation and height of a pole / overhang
Shadow_length = Overhang_height_to_base / tan( Sun_elevation)
Shadow direction is then based on the Sun Azimuth angle. And from that we can calculate the individual components based on simple trigonometry.
In my case, I am only interesting in understanding if shadow will penetrate beyond the overhang length, for that we can simply say:
Cos(Window_Azimuth - Sun_Azimuth) = Overhang_shadow_component / Shadow_Length
So, to know if we have a shadow is penetrating our window we simply need:
Shadow_penetration = Overhang_length - Cos(Window_Azimuth - Sun_Azimuth) * Overhang_height_to_base / tan( Sun_elevation)
Take care that the formula only works correctly when the sun is over the horizon
So I can build a sensor that drops to negative when sun is entering the window.
So far it seems to be working pretty well and I hope it can help others with the similar issue.
sensor:
- platform: template
sensors:
sun_shadow_lenght_entering:
friendly_name: "Sun Entering Rooms"
unit_of_measurement: '°'
value_template: "{{ (OVERHANG_LENGTH - cos((WINDOW_AZIMUTH-state_attr('sun.sun','azimuth'))*pi/180)*OVERHANG_HEIGHT/tan(state_attr('sun.sun','elevation')*pi/180)) | round(2) }}"
Looks good. Without stepping through all parts of the equations, it looks like we are measuring and using different parts of the same triangle.
I think this is about the third time in my life that I have used my high school trig lessons.
My scripts started to fail recently. They are all too late (+2h hours), but I didn’t really change anything. Before it was spot on. Azimuth and elevation seem correct.
Edit: I think I have had the angles wrong and therefore it worked while the sun was at lower angles in the winter and spring. But in summer it won’t. Hope that fixes it.
All the variables come from the Sun sensor and are not time of day based, but rely on latitude/longitude. There is no time variable in my equation. There is a time condition in my automation to stop it triggering at night.
Check that the location in your settings hasn’t changed. The more accurate you are with your location and your wall and eave angles/measurements, the more relevant the sun data will be.
How is it going now? What exactly is the 33 for you? Angle with 0 on North or South?
I have been working for approximately 1 year and it has worked well, the -33 is the north.
Now I am using Node Red and install a node to control the blinds that function very well and is very easy to use.
@archi071 Would you mind sharing the NodeRed config?
@Steve61 I’m trying this out, and since I have no overhang i just put that to zero. Would that be correct?
@devilkin
Hello
I am new to Node Red, my code can be improved, because there are things that I still don’t know how to do. The important thing is that it works.
There are a few things that you will have to adapt to your location and orientation of the windows.
I appreciate any idea or improvement of the code that you can think of.
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I need to double check my logic, but if you have no overhang, I don’t think you need this equation and can just use azimuth.
With a zero overhang, the sun should enter (or leave) a window at the same azimuth each day, irrespective of its elevation. That azimuth is likely to be (or very close to) the alignment of your windows off true north.
For example in my case, my house (Southern Hemisphere) is 8-degrees to the east of true north, so with zero overhang, I would expect the sun to start entering western windows at an azimuth below 8. (Of course once it gets to zero, that is 360-degrees, so that needs to figure in automations.)
Where do you put these to measure how much light is actually entering the room? Outside or inside?
I got one for each side of the house too, but not yet sure where to place them. And then I have only manual blinds, so will probably need some kind of sensor to know if they are open or not too…
I like the maths of this thread though and a combination of a light sensor, azimuth and elevation could perhaps make it even better.
Inside. I tried to put them in spots that were relevant to where we are in the room (like in the office by the desk), not too dark but also not getting hit with direct sunlight through the window in the morning or evening. Generally that meant close to where we hang out in the room but kind of high on the wall to avoid the evening sunspots.
Its not a perfect system but works pretty well. And we can always override a tell Google to turn on the lights if necessary.
One thing to keep an eye on - lights turning on increases the light level in the room. This seems obvious but it’s problematic when the ambient light level is very close to your threshold for turning on the lights. If you’re not careful it can cause it to bounce above and below the threshold, toggling the lights each time. To counter this I use a template sensor instead of a threshold sensor and have a slightly higher threshold when the lights in the room are on. That plus running the actual value through statistics sensors to iron out the spikes works pretty well.
EDIT: oh and when experimenting with where to put these sensors, get some painters tape. I stupidly assumed I had the right spot with one or two and just used the sticky ring that comes with it. That thing is very sticky, ripped a circle of paint right off the wall when I moved it 🤦
Excellent. Thanks! I’ll play around with lux values and positions.
Yeah, I have a few remotes and sensors I don’t want to put up until I’m 100% sure. Not only could it destroy the wallpaper, but there’s usually only one sticky ring.
As an aside here - as well as using the trig, I also use my solar PV panels as a defacto light sensor. If the panels on the roof above the window are producing less than a specified amount of power, I have it set so the blinds don’t close, because the low power = overcast.
It’s a bit blunt but works for me.