So starting with terminology so we are the same.
Yes, those are not automations, those are direct switch to switch links (or they are switch-hub-switch links depending on the controller/responder setup).
So they are Insteon Scenes.
So if you use the Insteon Control Panel and go through every button on those switches, you do not see any link to the H-Front Flood I assume. You would click switch, button, all-link database and see what exactly is in the database.
And I assume then you are saying that you have nothing at all that is triggered by sunrise. If you have anything at all triggered by sunrise, that is where I would dig. Sunrise should be the key.
If there was any unknown scene / scheduled config within the hub itself done by the old Insteon app it would not reflect within HA as:
H-Front Flood turned on triggered by service homeassistant.turn_on
6:20:59 AM - 4 hours ago
Sun rose
6:20:20 AM - 4 hours ago
Would it?
Edit:
Next time I’m onsite I was going to delete H-Flood entiy. Hard reset switch. Re-pair Hub to switch. Add back to HA. About only thing I can think of to try…
I would not think so BUT @teharris1 would be the definitive person to answer that. I would not think it would report as triggered by a home assistant service. I never used schedules in Insteon.
How do you use Alexa? You said you do not have Insteon Cloud nor do you have Home Assistant Cloud. Then how is it you are talking to Alexa to turn something on? The only other option would be implementing essentially your own Lambda service.
Alexa works like this AFAIK:
Alexa → Home Assistant Connection to Alexa (aka Home Assistant Cloud) → Local Home Assistant → Hub → Light
It is not Alexa → Local Home Assistant → Hub → Light
Within simple scheduler there is a single schedule that uses sunrise +5 min offset to turn off two insteon switches. But its for two different outside lights not related to H-Front Flood switch.
C-Front Lanterns + O-Front Lantern (Turned off by simple scheduler via sunrise)
H-Front Flood has been used by Simple Scheduler in Winter but it uses set times like 5:15pm-5:45pm. (Its for staff leaving work day to have light getting in car.)
H-Front Flood has never been used by simple scheduler for Sunrise/set. And because its summer the H-Front flood schedule is disabled currently.
Here’s the logbook this morning.
H-Front Flood turned off
9:25:38 AM - 3 hours ago
SM-G973U Charger Type changed to none
8:50:22 AM - 4 hours ago
SM-G973U Battery State changed to discharging
8:50:22 AM - 4 hours ago
C-Front Lanterns turned off triggered by service switch.turn_off
6:23:02 AM - 6 hours ago - Supervisor
O-Front Lanterns turned off triggered by service switch.turn_off
6:23:01 AM - 6 hours ago - Supervisor
H-Front Flood turned on triggered by service homeassistant.turn_on
6:20:59 AM - 7 hours ago
Sun rose
6:20:20 AM - 7 hours ago
Sun Next rising changed to August 17, 2023 at 6:19 AM
6:18:48 AM - 7 hours ago
Sun Next dawn changed to August 17, 2023 at 5:48 AM
5:47:48 AM - 7 hours ago
Use the Insteon Control Panel, I will bet one of those lights has a direct connection (aka Insteon Scene) to H-Front Flood. But that shows things are quite off. You say sunrise +5mins but the scheduled events seem to be way before sunrise.
C-Front Lanterns turned off triggered by service switch.turn_off
6:23:02 AM - 6 hours ago - Supervisor
O-Front Lanterns turned off triggered by service switch.turn_off
6:23:01 AM - 6 hours ago - Supervisor
H-Front Flood turned on triggered by service homeassistant.turn_on
6:20:59 AM - 7 hours ago
Sun rose
6:20:20 AM - 7 hours ago
So …
Sun Rose
H-Front Flood came on 39 seconds later
O-Front and C-Front turned off 2 mins after that
Emulated Hue allows for completely local HA / Insteon / Alexa integration.
Hmm. I believe its Alexa → Emulated Hue → HA → Insteon Hub → Insteon device.
I just know I was really happy to discover it. It did take me a moment to figure out multicast / Net issues.
If Interested - Emulated Hue Alexa connect? - #11 by SMauto
OK. So report to Emulated Hue folks. I would suggest you debug deeper in that integration because that integration calls Home Assistant Turn On for lights based on the python code I read.
As for Emulated Hue, no thanks. Alexa + Nabu Casa is fine with me. I am more thean will to pay the few dollars for it. I have much more than lights to control from outside (like two weeks ago I set music up for my winery in California while I was in Italy).
Ya the sun device has always been a strange to me…
Simple scheduler presently shows 6:19am as sunrise right now.
Yet Sun device “Next dawn” shows:
Last updated:8 hours ago
August 17, 2023 at 5:48 AM
My understand is its UTC but doesn’t make sense to me. I’m PST.
Lat + Long + elevation + country all defined in configuration.yaml.
And the logbook doesn’t reflect the exact time simple scheduler nor Sunrise UTC to PST conversion.
However despite few min discrepancy the C-Front Lanterns + O-Front Lanterns did as they we suppose to and turned off via simple scheduler. And this event is happening after the unexpected H-Front Flood turned on.
So I don’t see how any Insteon scene could be associated. Its happening first and by itself.
So could Sun device be malfunctioning to cause this?
I have (had) many six button controllers. Hated them. We moved one in the house for ceiling fan control and despite wiping it out as best we could (complete reset), I would push button “B” which was set as Fanlinc Speed Medium, it would turn on a kitchen light. Could never wipe it clean. WIth the new insteon HA code, those parts and marked inactive in the ALDB. You cannot delete them as this is how Insteon worked I believe. It kept each and every installation/change you made but marked things active or inactive. And the behavior to change some things was better on Android than Apple for somethings and better on Apple than Android for others. I gave up on those switches. Still have then installed and some are used but not many if at all.
You might have some phantom button linked to some schedule that executes and that button is linked to the other one.
AHA. SUCCESS!
It wasn’t Emulated Hue malfunctioning but rather some arbitrary sunrise routine that got setup within Alexa itself. Alexa / phone owner has no idea how it got setup / scheduled. :-/
Edwin_D correct it was just coincidence and not related to HA sun device. Alexa appears to be using own Sunrise timer.
I had identified both HA dashboard + Simple scheduler controls last night but not Alexa voice / emulate hue call.
Emulated Hue / Alexa voice / routine control is logged as service homeassistant.turn_on
Moment saw that I knew and talked owner through phone to find and delete Alexa routine.
Cool. I’m not familiar with Nabu Casa.
I’ve been meaning to ask some HA experts What type of PLM / device brand they would choose today and why. Heard some peeps talk about Lutron brand?
I’m not experienced or in the know if the many many “smart home” solutions. Primarily outsourced business IT. Supporting Vmware, Microsoft servers, networks, etc but not home automation. This is a one off.
Since many of the smart home solutions seem to hook you into their ecosystem I’ve been curious what peeps decide to go for. I just know I’d likely skip on Insteon for myself. But perhaps its improved now that it got bought up.
Edit:
What I’d really like to see is HA as far as Insteon is the ability to have multiple hubs connected. This Insteon environment is 3 buildings in close proximity. ~40-50ft. There have been issues with range of hub from center building in past. Have multiple repeaters. A networked PLM / hub in each building would be ideal. More of a distributed type design.
Well … are they powered through the same wires (meaning power) or isolated with meters of their own?
Insteon’s superior (IMHO) design is that it is both Powerline and RF. Hub (or PLM) is Powerline that sends out commands at the 0 line when sine wave passes through 0 AND it also can sing out RF.
Signals are grabbed and passed device to device to the proper thing to occur.
I personally would never put in anything else. Superior quality in switch construction (they feel and look good) and solid communication that is both Powerline and possibly RF for dual switches. People use to worry about dual-phase (220 into two 110 and which one are you on) but that is why you have Powerline and RF to jump the gap. I have like 10 switches easily with 15ft of the Hub, who knows what phase/doesn’t matter. I can hit a button in my house and turn on lights at my guest house 1000 ft away instantaneously.
And the more switches the merrier you are. No different that mesh technologies really. I have about 80 devices total and planning another 20 to rid myself of crappy alarm technologies.
Its a combined residence / business property.
Yes the center building House with Insteon hub is separate PG&E house meter than than the two side buildings business meter So the other two buildings each ~40ft away get signal from Insteon repeater.
My main complaint with Insteon has been the RF distance. Seems they should make a CAT5 type repeater that could talk with hub over network. That repeater getting signal over network to then powerline signal insteon device within that building. Again - I don’t really know much about smart homing but this would seem to allow for a nice distributed setup.
I have no idea how / what your doing for 1000ft away device? Is it signaling locally on your property or using some cloud / Inet function to trigger your guest house device?
All same wiring. Guest house is nothing more than a panel at main house feeding 200amp to the lower guest house. To do what you want you would need HA+local hub in each place. And you can have one HA speak to others … yes the RF is not going to reach that far (but a powerline could just pulled to a non-descript area on each property with some RF switch at the end) … never tried that as have not a need to.
Or better said, that is exactly what I do in reality as it is Powerline from main house to guest and then dual switches instaled in guest house to control kit from here.
I see. Ya know that probably is the solution. Their house + business + well meters and panels are outside of center building with hub. I can likely arrange for an electrician install an outlet from the main business panel into the house. Plug in repeater there. Then hub to repeater RF would be 5-10ft and bridge Insteon across circuits. Would just need to find how the two building circuits are segmented. Believe they are isolated so outlet would need plug for each buildings backbone + 2 repeaters. Each business building has own sub panels…I dunno. Need some electrician advise / investigation.
Thanks for discussion. Cheers!