# Simulate four-way and three-way switches

I’m helping a friend set up a new home.

His electrician has specified the need for four-way switches in ~ 5 locations - and he is installing dimmable LEDs so he wants dimmer switches.

And he wants smart switches everywhere.

He can’t find smart 4-way switches - only 3-way.

He asked me if I know of 4-ways and I said no - but that we could simulate this (and even get away from using 3-ways) if we use switches that communicate with each other.

I can think of a few ways to do this - and doing my best to explain it to him. I can find lots of explanations of three-way and four-way circuits. (here and here - quite good) but it seems nobody has yet explained how to do this with smart switches (that I can find) …

The simplest way to do this (I’m open to other ideas!) would be to use Leviton’s system that does this by design.

Then these for the other three switches …

But this could also be done with Shelly Dimmers and a cheap momentary one-way … or (perhaps) one Shelly Dimmer, traditional three-way wiring.

I’d like to write this all up wit advice as this is the second time I’ve encountered this challenge (opportunity!) and traditional electricians are hesitant to implement anything less than traditional wiring - which I think will result in overspending on copper for the travelers at the very least!

Question for the group:

a) Does anyone know of an explanation for all of this?
b) If not - perhaps I create a google doc and we crowdsource an explanation that electricians would understand? This way, homeowners can direct the electricians to a resource that explains how this will work.

The only thing you will need todo is place a “smart dimmer” at the end where the light is connected
replace the last 4 way switch with a 3 way switch and use that on the input of the dimmer. It will then use that input as a toggle. So if you switch it On in your app and then the input changes on the physical contact it will just toggle.

If you’re in the US, have you considered using a Lutron lighting system? Using Pico remotes, it is trivial to add additional ‘auxiliary’ switches wherever desired, without the need for expensive wiring.

You can absolutely wire a Jasco style smart switch in 4way… Diagram on this page.

https://byjasco.com/support/faq/z-wave-faqs

Should cover all Jascos and the SimpleWire successors - basically anything with a Jasco style addon switch.

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US based installations can definitely use the Leviton Smart Dimmer and when used in conjuction with their DD00R-DLZ Companion switch you can do 3-way or 4-way installations.

I’ve done a 4-way with their basic Z-wave switch set and it wasn’t any more complicated than a standard 4-way setup. IIRC the only real gotcha is the location of the primary switch itself. It needs to be the switch that is connected to the load. When I did it the first time I had the primary controller connected to the line and not the load and things didn’t work very well

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