Single phase/live mains to control two outputs, without wifi/bluetooth/HA/app, but by switching the supply

Hardware
1

I have a PLC network in my house, where I control many things, also lights, bathroom fans, and so on. It is all wired and programmed locally, the system is from Technische Alternative in Austria. It is not connected to HA, Alexa, Google or such.

To save on PLC outputs, as well as to avoid rewiring the house, I need this relative simple relay, which I have not yet been able to find:

Input to the relay is just one phase and one neutral mains (230V 50Hz in this case), and output is two separate low power consumers (like lighting, fans, shutters etc).

This kind of relay is like a 4 way smart relay, but instead of a pushbutton input, the selection is made by alternating the input power. Example: Mains on, both outputs are on. If mains is switched off, then on within a set period (say, 1 second or less), only one of the outputs are ON, the other remains OFF. There could be different combinations of flicking the switch, to make different combinations of output.

Be aware that my PLC units must be able to control these, so I cannot use any smart devices with wifi, bluetooth, remote controls, Alexa, Google and all that. It must be this simple: Only flicking the supply on and off will decide which outputs are open.

I have searched many relay suppliers and could not find this version of smart relays, 4-way relays, delay relays yet. It is so simple, and has many applications, so I am sure it exists. I could build one myself, with two relays, a few resistors and capacitors, but I want a single, sealed unit, for a permanent and durable installation.

Space is somewhat limited. It does not need to be DIN gang bar standard, as long as there are proper connections for phase and neutral in and out. The relay is not going to be mounted in the main circuit board, but in a junction box close to the consumers.

So if someone can please let me know where to find such a relay.

Applications: Before you reply what is the point of this kind of relay, imagine a cable leading to outdoor lighting, but now you want to split your lights into two groups. You don’t want the cables leading to the light to be live when the lights are off, you don’t want to install extra cables, just a local junction box with a relay, which splits the light into two groups. Inside the house is a normal light switch, and simply flicking the switch on and off several times will make the relay turn on either one of the light groups, or both.

In my case, I mainly need it for extractor fans with servo motor openings. Normally, these fans start the fan AND open the louver, but I need to only open the servo louver in some cases, while the fan remains off. In other cases, I need both the fan to run and louver to open.

I just found a relay by Yacht Devices, called Smart Relay YDSR-01 . It does what I want, except it is for DC low voltage. I need exactly this function, but where both input and output is 230V AC.

Once again, I cannot use remote control operated, wifi-bluetooth-app-HA kind of relays. It must be the way I described.

Thank you

DITB

2

Maybe to simple for 2023? :joy:

I also guess you achieve the logic you need with the help of a device based on esphome (you can deactivate wifi/bluetooth completely for your use case). The logic will be completely locally and the inputs can be controlled via binary sensor automations the way you need it :hammer_and_wrench:

Now you just need to find a esphome compatible hardware - so something based on a esp/esp32/pico basically. :page_facing_up:

This module for example comes with 4AC Relais and 4 AC Inputs :point_down:

So you don’t have actually a separate power for the relay device itself? That looks tricky then… The DC device linked seems to have bi-stable relay… :thinking:

3

Thank you for your reply, orange-assistant.

Yes, it is very simple, but there are many homes with little or no smart home automation. A relay like this gives a very useful, but cheap extension where other solutions would be very expensive. I did ask one producer of smart relays and they said they don’t have it, but can make it for me if I buy the MOQ (without specifying it, but I presume at least 100 relays then).

I will look at the relay you link to, but I think it is too advanced, too large, and I think it will need a separate cable anyway. Like that Smart Relay from Yacht Devices except in 230V AC rather than 12V DC.

4

Well, you can do advanced stuff or you can just configure just exact the things you need in your esphome yaml and :raised_hands: it will burned into the flash of the device. Other than for example tasmota - esphome doesn’t allow any changes while running so it can’t forget settings or resets itself. For me my esphome fleet are the most robust best manageable hardware we have at home and they do continue what they are told do (also when HA is not available). :rocket:

For your use case a simple (much smaller) esp based shelly type device with two outputs should be good enough. :pinching_hand:

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Yes, permanent power is indeed mandatory for that device to work. If I understand your wiring (L+N in and two L out) it will not work without at least one extra wire acting as input control. In esphome you could then for example use this single input to react differently on various lengths of button activation:

binary_sensor:
  - platform: gpio
    # ...
    on_click:
      min_length: 50ms
      max_length: 150ms
      then:
        - switch.toggle: relay_1
      min_length: 150ms
      max_length: 250ms
      then:
        - switch.toggle: relay_2

From your Technische Alternative you should then be able to program toggles with delays of 100ms and 200ms for that example which will trigger the actions you want.

The thing you need (Yacht type device but working with AC not DC) looks like something very rare indeed. :speedboat::dash:

Self build might actually the quickest way to success. :hammer_and_wrench:

Use high quality components and use conformal coating when you are down. Next level would be to put it in a case and pot it to the fullest. Might last longer (and be cheaper) than a commercial solution if they are available :wink: