Trying to fix slow Z-Wave Network

Configuration Z-Wave
1

Hello everyone.

Pretty new with this, so I am working things out slowly. Trying to setup a Z-Wave Network that will span accross three floors in my home. (yes, I have started to understand that can be a challenge)

I have a Raspberrypi4 as hub running Home Assistant and an Aeotec Gen 5 Z-wave Usb controller.
The hub is placed on the second (mid) floor centrally to try reach out as far as possible. Then I have bought about 10 Powerplugs and one “ZWave Repeater” which I intended to use to “build out the mesh” from the controller. So far so good.

The problem I am running into is that the network is very unreliable. Some of the Powerplugs react instantly, some of them might take 10 seconds to trigger after I send a command.

I have tried to start figure out what is going on, and I note one oddity. When I run Heal Network I see some nodes mentioned in the log that should not be there?

I currently have 12 (powered) devices, (10 plugs, 2 dimmers), and the highest node ID should be 14.
(that’s the highest I can see in the list of nodes from Z-Wave Node Management, and goes well in line with adding 13 in addition to the controller. They are also ordered 1-14 accordingly there)

In the log, Node 33, 39, 44 is mentioned… (it oddly even seems these nodes somehow respond?.. still they never appear as neighbour to any other nodes…)

HALog
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I wonder if this could be some kind of remains from my first install-attempts, messing up with my network now?

I have tried to google for this, and it seems removing “dead nodes” is a common problem. In this case they don’t really seem to appear as dead nodes though. They are somehow ghosting in the system?.. I have tried to reset the USB-stick according to the instructions (which made it appear as “fresh”) and alos deleted the zwcfg.xml / multiple restarts, and heals of network. The “ghosts” still appeear in the log. Can it be some device in the network that faultingly contains “neighbour data” from some missing device?..

I would mostly like to restart with a fresh reset, but it seems resetting the USB-stick, uninstalling the ZWave Integration / reinstalling it, and deleting the zwcfg file does not fix it.

How do I completely reset this setup? (do I need to reflash the SD-card for the Raspberry in addition to hard-resetting the USB-stick?)

Can these nodes be normal / something else that I don’t understand?

Any help is welcome :slight_smile:

2

Read your post. I have same stick, and 6 wall switches of NEO cool cam. Total space here is 65m2
Even then I see some slow reaction of my Z-Wave switches. Strange enough all my sensors (battery) are react extremely fast.

I cant put my finger on why the switches take some time when I turn them on or off inside HA

3

Interesting. I will try dig deeper… My space is ~3x50m^2 (3 floors), but I have issues even making one floor (50m^2), where the controller is work well…

It would be interesting to hear if others have similar problems with power switches. I don’t have too many other devices to test out at this point… :frowning: (8 of my power switches are telldus tzwp-102, 2 are Fibaro ones)

4

Are your switches Zwave+?

5

Yes all my devices are Z-Wave Plus certified.

6

Post a bit of the log where you issue the command to toggle the switch.

7

I will :slight_smile:

I just reset everything in the controller so I need to hook up all devices again. (a desperate attempt, re-installing Hassio completely, and even installing a new USB-stick to make sure no weird data is still in the stick itself)

After booting it up and starting the network with only the controller (1 Node), I ran a “Heal network” and it somehow still mentions a Node 35 in the log?! See below:

FreshInstall
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(I this normal?)

I was suspecting that the “ghost nodes” that somehow show up was making these issues. Do you know what can cause the log entry mentioning a “Node 35” when the installation is completely new? Can it be that I have some devices connected that, even if they are not in the network, somehow send something that the controller picks up? Next step for me is to disconnect EVERY device I have in the home as well…

8

Ignore it and connect your devices.

9

I run 2 network currently.
1 indoor/1 outdoor/2 independent HA install

Purpose of thIs was outdoor is >50m from home and >80m from 1st controller. Wifi is easy/more reliable to the 2nd zwave controller vs extend zwave. I have Indoor HA control outdoor HA using HA’s API

I not notice any slow performance.
Since problem is switch and alll of same type is it possible switch design is cause? Maybe designer intentially delay off/on response to prevent the rapid on/off and damage that may cause or debounce to prevent state change error .

If you not notice difference in switch time for switch close controller vs far maybe it normal function.

10

Haha… ok… I hate stuff like that :slight_smile:

My light OCD makes me want a “clean network” and if my log spews out stuff that makes no sense I want to get to the bottom of it… Anyway… I will probably just connect my devices now and see how it turns out. I installed Z-Wave Graph and I will render the network and look deeper into the logs around specific nodes if I still encounter “slowdowns”.

Now I have the new stick installed as well and maybe it performs better…

11

I have a recent install of about 40 Fibaro dimmer 2 (all hardwired to power), controlled by a Aeotec stick now running on HA on a VirtualBox VM on a Core i5. Have the Aeotec stick on a 2m USB extension lead to get some distance between it and the PC.

I had lots of issues with delays initially. These have mostly improved since ensuring that all the Fibaros have been added to the network non-secure. I also had HA running on a Pi3 previously and the VM is definitely snappier. Have also removed a couple of non-Zwave plus devices which I had inadvertently included. Not sure whether this has made any difference specifically.

I suspect ensuring that none of the dimmers were in secure mode has made the biggest difference.

Still monitoring performance. Next option is to test with a different hub just for zwave (Vera plus or something), but there is also the new zwave integration coming for HA which would be worth testing.

Pete

12

Interesting. Thanks. I might have had some device in secure mode.

When I reinstall all devices I’ll run all in non-secure.

13

Regarding the storage Node’s in the log - you can ignore that, it’s just a bug with the logging code.

And be aware that adding devices securely adds a lot of overhead to the communications.

14

Good to know. Is there a way to check if a node is added in past secure or non-secure?

15

In 1.4 checking the logs. Look for NONCE messages when sending/receiving on the device.

2 Likes
16

Thanks. Will turn on Z-Wave logging and will check it.
Non-secure is that also faster then secure? I think it is, otherwise lots more data must be send to make it secure.

17

So, means im not added my z-wave devices secure?

2020-02-24 12:32:04.187 Info, NONCES: 0xf6, 0xda, 0x65, 0x0f, 0xa0, 0x32, 0x7d, 0x9a
2020-02-24 12:32:04.188 Info, NONCES: 0x65, 0xb2, 0x72, 0x6c, 0xa6, 0x14, 0xda, 0xc4
2020-02-24 12:32:04.188 Info, NONCES: 0xa9, 0xe0, 0x4c, 0x36, 0xc7, 0x2a, 0xb3, 0xb1
2020-02-24 12:32:04.188 Info, NONCES: 0xfb, 0x15, 0x38, 0xad, 0xea, 0x98, 0xca, 0x41
2020-02-24 12:32:04.188 Info, NONCES: 0x0f, 0x07, 0x8f, 0xcd, 0x8f, 0x39, 0x35, 0xab
2020-02-24 12:32:04.188 Info, NONCES: 0xfe, 0xa0, 0x7d, 0xad, 0xe9, 0xbb, 0xb1, 0x77
2020-02-24 12:32:04.188 Info, NONCES: 0xd8, 0xeb, 0x90, 0xb5, 0xd9, 0x52, 0xa7, 0x9c
2020-02-24 12:34:35.289 Info, NONCES: 0x53, 0xc2, 0x51, 0x95, 0xb9, 0xbe, 0x82, 0x4e
2020-02-24 12:34:35.289 Info, NONCES: 0x15, 0x96, 0xf1, 0xa4, 0x53, 0x5d, 0xbc, 0x58
2020-02-24 12:34:35.289 Info, NONCES: 0xa0, 0x10, 0x9e, 0xfd, 0x95, 0xb6, 0x4b, 0xea
2020-02-24 12:34:35.289 Info, NONCES: 0x5b, 0xc7, 0x7f, 0xcb, 0x47, 0x74, 0x05, 0x94
2020-02-24 12:34:35.290 Info, NONCES: 0x9d, 0x5f, 0x38, 0xe9, 0x11, 0x21, 0xd9, 0x38
2020-02-24 12:34:35.290 Info, NONCES: 0xe2, 0x7d, 0x07, 0xe7, 0xb4, 0x33, 0xe1, 0xf6
2020-02-24 12:34:35.290 Info, NONCES: 0x49, 0x40, 0xa9, 0xa2, 0x41, 0xb3, 0x2a, 0x8d
2020-02-24 12:34:35.290 Info, NONCES: 0xbd, 0x6d, 0x8c, 0xa7, 0x49, 0xff, 0x99, 0xfc
2020-02-24 12:34:39.633 Info, NONCES: 0x53, 0xc2, 0x51, 0x95, 0xb9, 0xbe, 0x82, 0x4e
2020-02-24 12:34:39.633 Info, NONCES: 0x15, 0x96, 0xf1, 0xa4, 0x53, 0x5d, 0xbc, 0x58
2020-02-24 12:34:39.633 Info, NONCES: 0xa0, 0x10, 0x9e, 0xfd, 0x95, 0xb6, 0x4b, 0xea
2020-02-24 12:34:39.633 Info, NONCES: 0x6f, 0xbd, 0x4b, 0xc5, 0x8d, 0x21, 0x4f, 0x7a
2020-02-24 12:34:39.634 Info, NONCES: 0x9d, 0x5f, 0x38, 0xe9, 0x11, 0x21, 0xd9, 0x38
2020-02-24 12:34:39.634 Info, NONCES: 0xe2, 0x7d, 0x07, 0xe7, 0xb4, 0x33, 0xe1, 0xf6
2020-02-24 12:34:39.634 Info, NONCES: 0x49, 0x40, 0xa9, 0xa2, 0x41, 0xb3, 0x2a, 0x8d
2020-02-24 12:34:39.634 Info, NONCES: 0xbd, 0x6d, 0x8c, 0xa7, 0x49, 0xff, 0x99, 0xfc
2020-02-24 12:34:44.003 Info, NONCES: 0x53, 0xc2, 0x51, 0x95, 0xb9, 0xbe, 0x82, 0x4e
2020-02-24 12:34:44.003 Info, NONCES: 0x15, 0x96, 0xf1, 0xa4, 0x53, 0x5d, 0xbc, 0x58
2020-02-24 12:34:44.003 Info, NONCES: 0xa0, 0x10, 0x9e, 0xfd, 0x95, 0xb6, 0x4b, 0xea
2020-02-24 12:34:44.003 Info, NONCES: 0x6f, 0xbd, 0x4b, 0xc5, 0x8d, 0x21, 0x4f, 0x7a
2020-02-24 12:34:44.003 Info, NONCES: 0x2b, 0x9d, 0x81, 0x2b, 0x61, 0xfd, 0x84, 0x13
2020-02-24 12:34:44.003 Info, NONCES: 0xe2, 0x7d, 0x07, 0xe7, 0xb4, 0x33, 0xe1, 0xf6
2020-02-24 12:34:44.003 Info, NONCES: 0x49, 0x40, 0xa9, 0xa2, 0x41, 0xb3, 0x2a, 0x8d
2020-02-24 12:34:44.003 Info, NONCES: 0xbd, 0x6d, 0x8c, 0xa7, 0x49, 0xff, 0x99, 0xfc
2020-02-24 12:34:48.325 Info, NONCES: 0x53, 0xc2, 0x51, 0x95, 0xb9, 0xbe, 0x82, 0x4e
2020-02-24 12:34:48.325 Info, NONCES: 0x15, 0x96, 0xf1, 0xa4, 0x53, 0x5d, 0xbc, 0x58
2020-02-24 12:34:48.325 Info, NONCES: 0xa0, 0x10, 0x9e, 0xfd, 0x95, 0xb6, 0x4b, 0xea
2020-02-24 12:34:48.325 Info, NONCES: 0x6f, 0xbd, 0x4b, 0xc5, 0x8d, 0x21, 0x4f, 0x7a
2020-02-24 12:34:48.325 Info, NONCES: 0x2b, 0x9d, 0x81, 0x2b, 0x61, 0xfd, 0x84, 0x13
2020-02-24 12:34:48.325 Info, NONCES: 0x2a, 0x90, 0x2d, 0xbe, 0x83, 0xf8, 0x64, 0xff
2020-02-24 12:34:48.325 Info, NONCES: 0x49, 0x40, 0xa9, 0xa2, 0x41, 0xb3, 0x2a, 0x8d
2020-02-24 12:34:48.325 Info, NONCES: 0xbd, 0x6d, 0x8c, 0xa7, 0x49, 0xff, 0x99, 0xfc
18

Can pitch in a bit here.
I re-added all my devices once again, did multiple “heal network”, and still the network was very slow and unreliable… (some devices just kept going to “dead state” also…)

The odd thing was that viewing it all in ZWaveGraph it seemed that all devices hooked directly the the controller (not really a mesh…?) - can it be that the code that should “mesh it out” is somewhat buggy?
(is that in software of HA?) That could explain why things gets so slow in my appartment. (my place is kinda big, 3 floors, lots of space between nodes…)

I ended up buying a Home Center 3 hub
…and for some reason when I pair up my devices with that device, everything just works way more reliably… (Both solutions had the same placement, on the 2nd of the 3 floors to be centralized) I find it strange, cause I don’t think sending Z-Wave-signals should be very different for the Raspberrypi with a Aeotec Gen 5 Z-wave Usb stick… but somehow the Home Center 3 “just works”… :expressionless: (The downside with Home Center 3, is that the software still seems in a beta-stage and it’s a rushed product. Only Z-Wave-support, and the app they have is kinda crude… at this point I’d recommend HC2 unless you are ready to wait for firmware and software upgrades…)

19

If you see NONCE then it’s included securely.

1 Like
20

Ok. So to have a faster and less data I need to remove them and add them non-secure.
Or do you see keep it as it is? If it is working…