Upgrade Advice

Configuration
1

I taught myself Linux & Python the set this up. I used to be a programmer in a previous life but it was all windows so I do have the aptitude.

RPI 4 8Gig, nothing in the MicroSD card slot, using a 1TB Samsung T7 SSD, with a non-standard (slightly higher voltage, 5.1v I think) power supply, running:

  1. Weewx on the host listening to an AmbientWeather console (which is connected to an ambient weather WS-2902C weather station), transmitting weather data to 12 different weather websites worldwide.

  2. A simple demon on the Host watching the CPU temperature and turning the fans for the case on (above 50Ā°C) and off (below 60Ā°C) appropriately. Itā€™s a great case (large aluminum block) and once I went to the 64-bit the fans have never even turned on anywayā€¦

  3. HA supervised using Debian 12, healthy, supported

87 devices, Yolink, Shelly, WLED, Flair. 165 automations, several dashboards including ui-minimalist. CPU spikes to 50% but usually bouncing between 0% and 10%, usually closer to 0%. Memory floats between 10% and 30%.

I do full backups occasionally by not only Google backup for HA, but also disabling all the daemons and HA on start up - then shutting it down, booting up the RPI with a MicroSD card running Raspbian and using SD card copier to copy one SSD to another of the same size. Pretty lame basic way to back up but the backup SSD boots up and works flawlessly (after I re-enable the demons and HA to run on startup).

I have an RPI 5, 8 gig already and was thinking of getting an mvme - but I noticed the I/o speed is the same as the SSD with a USB 3 Port anyway from what I have readā€¦

I am pretty sure this heavily tweaked smooth running installation will be blown out of the water when I try to add thisā€¦

I want to add video recording and cameras to my HA setup but here is my current situation and Iā€™m not sure the best way to go Iā€™m sure I would be using that dongle (whatever it is called I forgot) to speed up video processing and also Frigate.

All of my iot devices are on a different subnet than the RPI, and the two subnets are blocked from each other, but I then have firewall rules to let each iot device talk to ha (every single IP is static).

Iā€™m willing to do whatever complicated set up is best to push myself up the next level, as long as it doesnā€™t break the bank (the spare RPI 5 is the only unused item I have at this point) but I am rethinking if itā€™s worth it to stick with RPI (even though I am totally in love with those amazing little computers)ā€¦

I see all these words thrown around like proxmox etc etc etc I have no clue about any of them the barely even know how to use docker but I am willing to learn no matter how hard it might be to pick up lol

Iā€™d rather stick with Debbian and not have anything running under Windows which Iā€™ve heard is less reliable, itā€™s got to be rock solid but also powerful for crazy ridiculous extra things in the futureā€¦ (And maybe also another way of backing up the entire setup without a bunch of manual steps like Iā€™m doing now).

Thoughts?

2

I prefer 4 to 8 bay supermicro rack servers. I had bought 2012 models and they have enough
CPU and RAM for anything I throw at it. Coral TPU handles most image process tasks. The bays allow me to throw in several TB hdds.

I add Immich recently and may get GPU
For that but itā€™s a one time task and only taxes cpu when newly installed. After I believe cpu will be enough

IOT devices donā€™t talk to HA. HA talks to them. I generally block traffic out of IOT and allow HA in. Established in connection allows for data back out.

I buy used of eBay or from local auctions. 8 bay dual cores have run me 25 - 250USD. My current unit (bought used and had 4yrs) replaced my previous(bought used and had 4yrs). Never had an issue and only replaced due to 4 bay upgrade to 8 bay. Replaced fans to quieter and maxed out ram and stll under $300.

I run Debian or Ubuntu, I go back and forth year to year, along with docker.

3

Upgrading the hardware platform for something youā€™ve put so much heart and soul into is a fun (as in ā€˜roller coasterā€™ type of fun) but ultimately rewarding project. The Pi is amazing, youā€™re right, but moving up a level in hardware capability is absolutely worthwhile for the number of devices and automations that you describe. I donā€™t think you will be disapointed with the result, regardless of how you proceed.

I started with a Pi 4, but last fall upgraded to a ā€œBeelink Mini S12 Proā€ running Proxmox. The computer is ~$200 US on Amazon, and about the same physical size as a Pi but much more capable.

Proxmox is a free, open-source operating system, designed to run multipe (or just one) Virtual Machines, in which you run whatever you want. You donā€™t need to understand very much of the Proxmox system itself - though of course itā€™s as deep a rabbit hole as you want it to be.

Getting HA up and running in Proxmox is extremely simple by following the excellent steps and scripts in this Community Guide: Installing Home Assistant OS using Proxmox 8

Now, this guide ends up with you running Proxmox and HA Operating System. Is it an option for you to move from Supervised to HAOS? If so, that might simplify things in your environment, and would put you into the mainstream of HA users (See here: https://analytics.home-assistant.io). (Or it might be a show-stopper for you!)

Making the whole process less risky is that you wonā€™t need to unplug the Pi right away. You could install and play with a new HA instance on the new hardware until you were comfortable, and only then backup from the Pi and restore onto the new system.

Best of luck however you proceed!

4

Thanks for that @tmjpugh yes of course, I have made the change.

I will look into those servers you suggested - and yes a Coral TPU would be a requirement. I have a lot of research to do!

5

Thank you @PecosKiddā€¦ Can ProxMox host a Debian VM?

6

Yes, it can. But I donā€™t know the pros/cons of doing so vs just installing Debian directly.

7

Thank you. Looked into it and it is subscription based - bummer, Iā€™d rather get something free or something I just pay for once - ideas?

8

Proxmox is free. Thereā€™s a paid plan available but completely optional.

Yes, it can run Debian.

These come in very handy.

1 Like
9

This is fantastic. I could create the Debian 12 VM, increase the size of it from the default 2GB, and then I presume go ahead and install HA Supervised right there and then restore my settings from Google drive backup?

Another quick question, and this is key, can I then take a ā€˜snapshotā€™ of that whole VM as a backup, even while running? That would be IDEAL!..?

10

I prefer HA Supervised for the extra control and to be able to dabbleā€¦

11

Cool. So option A would be
Hardware - Debian - HA Supervised
And option B would be
Hardware - Proxmox - Debian - HA Supervised
With Option B giving you the capability of making clones / backups / snapshots of the whole Debian environment as desired.

12

@PecosKidd YESSSSSSSSS :slight_smile:

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13

One of the main reasons to run a Hypervisor like Proxmox is so you can install HA OS as a VM, then run other VMs like Debian to ā€œdabbleā€ with and not cause problems with your HA instance - the separation of Church and State so to speak.

If you wish to run Supervised I see no point in using Proxmox.

2 Likes
14

VM Snapshots for backups! Much simpler than the gnarly way I do it now (if you read my original post)ā€¦

15

You can snapshot a HA OS VM.

1 Like
16

Hi again Jason! Without proxmox? How to snapshot then unless something else is better than Proxmox? And then you say donā€™t use HS Supervised, but another flavor instead. So Supervised on a VM is a bad combination? I have other daemons running directly on that same host that make calls into HA to update various HA sensors. I also want to do other things at the OS level outside of HA on the same machine (or VM). There is no way to access the OS directly with HA OS, unless I am mistaken?

Thank you for all the adviceā€¦

17

No, using Proxmox. You can snapshot any VM or CT in Proxmox.

In my opinion, yes. It adds an extra unnecessary layer to your installation requiring you to keep the Debian installation updated in-line with the ADR.

Which would be outside of the scope of the ADR and may lead to HA issue. Again, do this in a Debian/Ubuntu VM and play around as much as you like without causing your HA install any problems which I suggested in my previous postā€¦:point_down:

18

In docker you donā€™t snapshot. You only backup the config folder. The OS itself is fixed file stored by third party(on GitHub or dockerhub) with option to store file locally. Storage size will be smaller (config file vs OS+config). I donā€™t think I explain the docker file part correct but I donā€™t have better way to explain.

Other difference docker vs proxmox is resource use. I think proxmox is traditional vm with ui to make setup easy?

VM require dedicated storage + memory + cpu.
Docker use the resources on demand and allow setting limit per container for use.

Not saying one is better than other. Just a different concept. I prefer docker only because build and restore process is more config file based and even if file is lost the rebuild is simple. UI is provided by portainer or other manager.

I recently heard of nix OS from Self Hosted podcast and it sounds interesting. Not like docker or VM. It isdeclaritive file based OS which sound interesting but I doubt I would switch to it.

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