Have been shopping around for several months looking for something to replace my dead dishwasher. It has been a difficult process as the prices are through the roof and the sub $1000 dishwashers look like they would last about 6 months.
Currently looking at lower end Bosch and Meile but hesitant to proceed with such a pricey purchase considering they rely heavily on being connected to their proprietary cloud services.
Is there a method to connect to and control with HA without requiring a cloud account or having the dishwasher connect to the Internet?
I don’t know of any (yet), but suspect they will start to exist soon.
Beyond that, my 2024-11 Samsung washer-drier works fine with the SmartThings integration but that is cloud-dependent (Device → WLAN → ST Cloud → ST Integration → HA). The local controls work fine, and TBH, the integration is more about push alerts as the remote controls aren’t much better (although the bedding cycle refuses to dry, so remote access works around this).
You’ve likely seen Jeff Geerling’s video on how Bosch devices don’t give all the features without a cloud-based app - HARD NOPE from me!
What do you want out of a smart dishwasher that improves your life? It’s an honest question because something as simple as a Shelly or even a good amperage wall plug on a dumb device can tell you how much power it’s using, when it starts and when it stops. It won’t let you start it at a particular time, but most dishwashers these days have that built in anyway.
I recently replaced mine and there was no reason to use the Samsung smart features on it because I didn’t want it in the cloud and yet one more person selling my data, so I put in a Shelly and it’s all I need.
More and more, because they want to sell your data more than anything, smart appliances require cloud access.
No judgement, you do you, but while I do some crazy unnecessary automations in my house I don’t participate in all these cloud integrations unless it’s giving me something earth shattering - even then I likely won’t do it, because I’m happy with a smart-but-a-dumber-than-their-crappy-app “kinda smart” device
I bought Bosch SMS4HVI33E dishwasher. I think it is affordable smart dishwasher. Yes, it does have wifi but can be used without internet or cloud account. I created account, connected it ot wifi vlan and its oke.
I integrated it in home assistant, created some automations and for now everything is working fine.
You can buy dishwasher for 200-300 € in europe that are not smart and will work for 5 years surly. And you can make it smart and added it home assistant. Depending on your level of expertise you can use more invading technic and dismantle it to find a way how to integrate esp board or relay in it and program it or just use smart plug or outlet and probably finger boot and contact sensor(s) to control it locally.
So there are options imho and its up to you and your preferences and budget what will you buy.
Yes, they are and there is solution to it. Use vlan wifi with client isolation.
Cloud devices cannot speak to each other, doesn’t have any access to main network and can basically only connect to their cloud.
Main reason why it is better to use smart dishwasher then dumb is ease of integration in ha.
Why should it be smart any way?
Well because you can start it when electricity is cheaper so it will gain you some lower bill on electricity. Truth to be told it is not huge amount in savings but if you use it every day and maybe few times during the weekend it adds up during the year.
Whilst I agree on most of your points, a friend has a Bosch in the UK and had two issues:
UK built-in appliance kitchen wiring typically puts a 13A socket (or FCU) behind the appliance - this makes getting the depth needed for socket → Shelly/Sonoff/Matter → plug challenging, unless you’re able to relocate the back-box or add an extension. In the UK, I’d probably suggest a hard-wired TH16.
Perhaps a local issue, but something to consider.
I watched my friend set up a delayed cycle on the Bosch control panel. It took quite a while as the limited UI was fiddly, with few buttons and only a red LED shining on the floor for in-use status.
Again, not a deal-breaker, but worth testing different models out in a shop if you want to use a timed-start feature for energy management.
The SmartThings remote control feature on Samsung is not much use anyway as you have to enable it EVERY TIME an appliance is turned on, and as you need to physically load/ unload the device, it’s not that remote!
There were jokes years ago about the Microsoft Toaster only working with Microsoft Bread (oh, how we laughed at Win95!), but these days the joke is on us.
QR reading cameras in coffee machines, secure ID chips in toner cartridges, ID checks in refrigerator water filters…
That’s crazy, my 5 month old Samsung has all those right on the panel, no app needed. If they require the app for features, it tells you that your data is more important than the device which is just mind boggling. It makes me think of fast food companies, like McDonalds, that give away all this “free” stuff if you just use their app - reinforcing the saying “nothing is free [just ask Google]”.
He suggests the ÂŁÂŁ model has been made cheaper by removing controls to the app - making them app ONLY. Only the ÂŁÂŁÂŁÂŁ model has all the buttons and a small display.
Bosch have German heritage, so should understand privacy more than most, but even so the concern of data harvesting to sell on to marketeers can’t be dismissed easily.
You can turn off the cloud connection in the app for the appliance. You can use the dishwasher locally with a custom component, just need the cloud API to get all the right parameters for the dishwasher.
And of course, Jeff has not made his due diligence researching the product first, but had only a rant about it, because he didn’t like it. You can buy Bosch dishwashers without any cloud connectivity.
Bosch is one of the most documented brands out there for repairs. They have a few hundreds page documentation which suits all of the dishwashers and explains how to replace parts inside the dishwasher. They provide replacement parts for the dishwashers as well.
Does LG or Samsung provide this as well?
And if ranting is the standard now, why nobody is ranting about Unifi asking to enroll your Protect into their cloud to enable Smart Detections for any of the local AI capable cameras? Cameras don’t require internet connection either, meanwhile Ubiquiti has track record of being hacked and allowing users to access other users’ equipment.
There is integration for home connect local control.
Didn’t tried yet, but I will.
Worth checking will ie. Bosch dishwasher work with this. I don’t need cloud access anyway.
Edit:
I configure it with local control. I does need some firewall adjustments on my side but for now it is working.
Why should anyone need to faf around with “due diligence” to see if “eco mode” requires a full internet connection with a remote account? Bosch are just being dishonest and manipulative.
Maybe because all dishwashers are not made the same not they have the same price tag and the same functionality.
Everyone should do a bit of research before buying any home appliance. I have smart dishwasher made by bosch but it doesn’t need cloud to operate as all operation including delayed start can be done with physical buttons.
Till now the only thing I noticed that is a bit problem is that it will not auto reconnect to could if it looses wifi connection for some reason.
But I will try local control and see how that is working.
@Tamsy, have a look at the actual link which I put in my comment. Ubiquiti is not allowing it and not planning to allow it. The post that you commented that has an edit which says “in the future”, 1 year later Ubiquiti “clearly” states to clients that they are not planning it.
And of course Jeff will use the “eco mode” - 4 or 5 hours long program - with his big family.
I bought a Samsung washer 7-8 years ago, one of the first smart models, nobody told that remote start only works, if the washer is powered on, you close the door and you set the washer into remote control mode. Of course the washer powers down after a few minutes of inactivity and there is no option to power it on remotely. Is the remote control function useless, yes, it is, was it worth the money, no, it wasn’t. And any of the Samsung appliances has not got any local control through their apps, everything goes through the cloud.
So Bosch has saved a few buttons on the dishwasher and allowed the functions through the app, I assume likely those which are the least used. There are even models from Bosch which have physically buttons, not touch ones. So, yes, Jeff should have done his due diligence before buying it, especially that the user manuals are clearly available on the internet and they are quite detailed. (Even Jeff shows it in the video!)
Which is the sole reason why I would never ever buy a Protect since it is much too sensitive to let anyone even just being able to access the streams.
But similar goes with dishwashers, washing machines, blenders, toothbrushes, you name it: I simply see no reason why whatever home appliance should/must be clouded.
Our washing machine and dishwasher are what is nowadays called dumb. A power monitoring plug, a trend sensor and some automations gives me all I need to remotely monitor and control them without worrying about any data leaking out to the manufacturer to get analyzed.
Unless you have dynamic electricity pricing and you want to start things based on the prices.
Like this:
Of course, you do not need cloud for this but some local-remote control. Dishwashers, washers and dryers are a great example for automations regarding remote start and electricity pricing.
this post!