Which topology for a new installation

Hi there :wave:,

I’m not that versed in home automation, so apologies beforehand for any misuse of the terminology and concepts.

I’m renovating my house, and as part of that we are doing a new electrical installation. I’d like to take the opportunity to introduce some home automation. In particular:

  • Switches, blinds, and outlets that can be controlled physically and remotely controlled.
  • Sensors that I can use to define some automation.

It’s hard to find someone in my area with expertise in home automation, but I found someone and he mentioned that if I want to be able to control switches physically and remotely, I’d need to either do it centrally with a start topoloty using a piece like this one, or in in the ends (where the switch is) but that’d require taking an additional electricity cable/line there and using something like this.

What would you recommend? Do you have some literature that don’t mid sharing?

Thanks in advance

You shouldn’t need any special cabling. Since you’re starting from scratch you might look at Z-wave. Alternatively, Zigbee is a cheaper alternative very popular with manufacturers - there are more devices available, but since it is an open standard (Z-wave requires certification) there are a lot of quirky implementations. In both cases you should be able to install switches that can be controlled locally and centrally, and - very important - that will still work manually if the system is down.

There are Home Assistant integrations for both.

I would also consider Wi-Fi. Shelly, and others (ESP), have both DIN rail (star topology) and end-point switches. And sensors.

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Since you’re (re)doing all hard wiring in your house, you could consider to use hard-wired solutions for the primary stuff (e.g. main sensors, lights, switchable sockets, heating valves, …) with e.g. KNX hardware. Since the KNX integration is officially ensorsed by the KNX association, the support for KNX will be of high quality and very stable.

I have this setup at my home as well. It has the benefit that I could install hardware from any KNX vendor, and can all control it via HA. I have some functionality directly configured in KNX (e.g. every room’s primary light) so this basic functionality works even if HA would be down for some reason (e.g. software update or hardware failure). Other switches and KNX outputs are linked over HA (e.g. for long-press functionality etc).

This also makes sure that if I ever sell my house, the new owners don’t have to use HA, and can just use KNX instead (obviously they’d loose remote control, fancy smart automations etc, but it is at least a choice).

Welcome!

You do not mention the sq ft or sq m area of your abode, nor the number of floors and material in the interior and exterior wall. These can have effect on getting good and consistent wireless coverage thru out your house.

The latest WiFi 7 based mesh systems are starting to stabilize on the standards set and come down to an acceptable price point. I would encourage pulling several 2.5 Gigabit (category 5e or greater specification) capable ethernet cables from a central phone/computer/media closet to three or four corners of your floor plan on each floor. You may not use them all, but now it the time to pull them at the lowest cost. Make sure the remote ends of these cables terminate so that you can place a wifi hub device that is ‘out of the way’ but with okay radio wave ‘visibility’ to the ‘quadrant’ of the floor it covers. Also, unless you get fancy with powering these devices with Ethernet Power over Ethernet, make sure you have a non-switches (always on) power outlet near the location. I’m not pitching TP-Link, just that the info at their link below is a fair explainer of setting up a ‘wired back haul’ mesh WiFi system.

I think it goes without saying in current electrical work in most parts of the world, however if you have circuits currently wired in a ‘no neutral’ wire layout, have these rewired so that there are neutral wires wired to all switch locations.

It’s pretty new, and as you say difficult to find electricians with the knowledge, but wiring your main circuit breaker locations to support circuit breakers that can monitor energy usage on each circuit is a nice feature. At least a device that can monitor and transmit to your future home automation system the total power usage of your home would be lower cost than being able to monitor each of the circuit breaker covered circuits in your house, if you search this forum you will find folks with 1st person experiences with these device in a number of parts of the world. Updating/modernizing your main circuit breaker cabinets may be worth the expense now. You did not mention it, however wiring for solar (even if a future project) and adding circuits for one or two electric car charging locations, now is the time as your are remodeling.

Another ‘nice to have’ is to add electrical outlets for under cabinet lights in kitchen and other ‘visible’ locations. This gives you the ability to add these nice home automation controlled ‘hidden away’ lights easier.

On an important side topic for the ‘significant other’ in your life, install power outlets next to a least their primary :poop: :seat: for a quality heated bidet. I’ve found that keeping their :peach: :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: can reduce the :grimacing: in your :peach: as you have fun with home automation :beers:

And if you have the coin :purse:, heated floor in at least the primary bathroom floor.

Good hunting! and much fun and success with your home automation in 2024!

MY recommendations, others will disagree.

You can never have too much Ethernet in the walls. CAT5E is sufficient for most homes as it is rated for 1 gigabit per second. Unless you are getting 10Gbit from your ISP, you don’t need CAT6. CAT6 is rated to 10Gb per second, but other than businesses, I have never heard of anyone with 10Gb speeds from their ISP. If someone tells you that you need CAT7, then either they don’t know what they are talking about or they want you to pay them for expensive cabling.

What is Cat7 - And Why You Don’t Need It

If I were building new, I would run CAT5E or CAT6 from a central location, call it a server closet, to every room in the house. Have the electrician just drop the Ethernet cable into the wall with a 3-ft tail. Roll it up and tape- NOT STAPLES- it to the stud. (For the electrician: This is low-voltage data cable and no code I am aware of requires staples like line-voltage cables). Then drywall over it. Make a map of where the drops are located so that when you decide that you need Ethernet in this room, you can cut a hole for the wall plate. I am in the US and this is what I use.
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Don’t forget the ceilings. You may want to install WiFi access points in the future.
Most important tip about cables: LABEL them.

Which wire goes to which room?

Topology:
Do NOT buy a hub. Home Assistant can act as the hub for Z-Wave or Zigbee with just a USB dongle. (A Zigbee dongle is technically a “Coordinator”).

[Tip: plug the dongles into a USB2 port. USB3 (because of its data speed) can generate harmonics that will decrease the range of 2.4GHz devices. Especially Zigbee].

It doesn’t really matter which topology you start with, Ethernet, WiFi, Xbee, Z-wave, USB, because you will eventually have devices on all of them. No one topology can provide devices for all IOT things. My personal recommendation would be Ethernet and Zigbee. Ethernet because you will find more devices with Ethernet than most others. And WiFi devices tend to be the cheapest. Zigbee because, in my experience, connecting Zigbee devices to Home Assistant is pretty easy.

Lights:
Unless you really NEED color, do NOT buy “smart LEDs”. They are expensive and you can use dumb (cheaper) LED lights and smart switches. I prefer in-wall switches like this:

Switch modules like Shelly or Sonoff are best for using existing switches but using a switch that has WiFi or Z-wave already built-in eliminates some wiring and doesn’t crowd your fixture box.

Summary:
Don’t sweat the details.

Totally off-topic, but Choisissez une offre Fibre ou ADSL sans engagement - Free offers up to 8Gbps, and Orange.fr offers up to 5Gbps. But the rest of your network will be limited to 1Gbps anyway as for higher speeds you’d need more expensive/less available hardware. I agree that CAT6 cabling is plenty enough, even if I have higher speed internet :slight_smile:

Ideally you DO WANT a 10Gbps LAN, and at least shielded CAT6a, because if you are going to run visually lossless 4K AV extenders, modern WIFi6E or WiFi7 WAPs, and the like, 10Gbps is absolutely required.

10GbE is not for your Internet, it is for the services you run inside your home (your LAN) and how well protected you are as technology advances.

If you can afford CAT8 go for it, but foil shielded (F/FTP) CAT6a is the minimum you should opt for. Also opt for toolless keystones/plugs.