Why are people asking the same questions over and over again? (Or the Regulars' Chatroom) 🤷

[Stiltjack]

@NathanCu

In solving the problem we would never:
Provide working finished code (forces the end user to interact to make it work)
Provide an opinion on on a technique not backed by a probable point (provide reference)

Could you add these two to "How to help us to help them?

How to help us help them - or How to give a good answer

Before we begin… This forum is not a soapbox You don’t work for Home Assistant, that’s an open source project. You are volunteering your free time to help others. You don’t have to respond to their rants… Read the question All the way through. Quite often the act of writing the post clarifies things in the poster’s mind, so that they only get to the real point in the last couple of lines. There may actually be several questions. They may have got hold of the wrong end of the stick entir…

[Stiltjack]

@petro

you’ve been the topic of conversation in the moderators chat

OMG - you mean they talk about us?

[zombies.aaargh]

@aceindy

I’d rather explain and try to make understand people how it works and why it works in that way.
Once someone understands how it works, you will never forget it

For some areas, definitely. If someone is writing a complicated routine to extract statistics from an energy monitoring device and to perform mathematical functions on them then the odds are that they’re an experienced user who needs highly technical documents and doesn’t need a lot of basic details explaining to them.

I think that maybe where the documentation that already exists falls down a bit is in dealing with the people who just want to do one or two things, like taking the cloud out of the equation for their smart lights, rather than building a fully functional home automation system. People who are task orientated, rather than interested in gaining a full technical understanding of HA. They want to know how to do something, rather than how to get HA to do something, if you get my meaning.

Like someone who goes onto Youtube to look for a video on how to fill their washer bottle up, but who isn’t looking to do a full automobile maintenance course.

The problem is getting the balance right. Ideally we’d have some documentation that starts by explaining how to do something, and then goes on to explain why they are doing each of the things that they are doing?

If we put too much technical information up front the people who just want to know a few things that specifically relate to what they are doing will just tune out.

[zombies.aaargh]

I’d welcome some instructions on how to do that, I could only see the private flag option on the interface, not the flag as inappropriate.

[petro]

When you click the flag, it will have a pop up where you select the type.

[Stiltjack]

@zombies.aaargh

People who are task orientated, rather than interested in gaining a full technical understanding of HA. They want to know how to do something, rather than how to get HA to do something, if you get my meaning.

Absolutely. We’re trying to take this approach with the Home Assistant Cookbook. Perhaps you’d like to contribute?

The Home Assistant Cookbook - Index.

[NathanCu (Nathan Curtis)]

This is the constant battle in user adoption and why Im very happy to see some of the recent Nabu hires. They seem directed at this exact point.

Theres a point where we’re providing just enough to get someone excited and they take off and run unfortunately that tipping point is different for everyone. For a very technical user it may be as simple as here’s the website. For others we have a hill to climb before they see a website.

(this is the same problem Microsoft and Amazon and Google have getting new users into mature cloud properties btw)

Personally I like the idea of a primer series. Probably in video format (it’s friendlier) but in these we MUST stay away from specifics and ride higher in the water. Go conceptual.

Like what is an integration and why does HA do it that way. (7min) If you haven’t seen videos 1,2,3 you probably want to watch them now… In the video we’d discuss when to look for an integration and what it adds and why but stY away from. The actual step by step in the UI. That video could probably survive a year or so at the current cadence of UI shift.

[zombies.aaargh]

@aceindy

If you do need those you made a poor decision on your hardware

It’s all legacy equipment. I’m cutting out cloud based services rather than choosing new hardware specifically for use with HA. The fact that HA s so adaptable is why I chose to use it rather than a blackbox solution.

I’d really appreciate it if you stopped making comments like this. Is it really necessary to criticize every choice I make?

If you don’t like something that I’ve done then please simply pass my comments by. Ignore me, mute me, don’t reply to me or about me. Just pretend that I’m not here.

[zombies.aaargh]

@NathanCu

Go conceptual.

Seconded. BTW.

[petro]

FYI that works both ways.

You can do this yourself.

Unfortunately, you can’t mute moderators.

ignored is above that too

[NathanCu (Nathan Curtis)]

I may work on this. It fits with something else that I was already planning to do. Be careful what you wish for.

[Sir_Goodenough ((SG) WhatAreWeFixing.Today)]

This is why a separate space is required for discussions.
We have a good productive chat going working a project and it gets attacked with off-topic.

[Stiltjack]

@Sir_Goodenough

This is why a separate space is required for discussions.

Just not a private space - other people need to see how obnoxious we are.

[code-in-progress (Bill - I write code.)]

@Stiltjack

other people need to see how obnoxious we are.

If they can’t figure that out from our normal, day to day comments, they just aren’t paying attention…

[Sir_Goodenough ((SG) WhatAreWeFixing.Today)]

There’s understand… then there’s hyjack

[boheme61]

@NathanCu

@Arh

So how do we encourage people to read these docs before asking questions?

If you ever figure this out user experience folks everywhere

Not only !,i would say Everyone but IKEA ( Well for their furniture assemble , that is ) , even thou their Zigbee Hub with Devices and APP , is a “no brainer” , nothing much can go wrong, because one can’t do anything but click-through, “let it run” , and don’t ever think about what’s going on , behind the curtain !

[boheme61]

@zombies.aaargh

For example

The easiest option to edit configuration.yaml is to use the Studio Code Server add-on. This add-on runs VS Code, which offers live syntax checking and auto-fill of various Home Assistant entities.

For 98% of the population, this says a lot yet very little, and this is one of the most crucial parts of this particular document for a new user because it tells them where there need to go to do the thing that they want to do.

It’s Not !, easiest is installing File-Editor, basic although sufficient for most basic needs, and as simple as Anyone who can navigate and succeed in, in alot/most of use-cases ( first thing most people are thinking about actually “How Can I Edit A File”, " How Can i Find A File"
As Google as well as The Search Box in this Forum, can provide answers to this question, i find it somehow peculiar that this is/could even a problem for 98+1% of the Population , True i am aware that for -1%, even this is a “task to overcome”

[francisp (Francis)]

I agree, the VS Code add-on is a resource hog.

[Sir_Goodenough ((SG) WhatAreWeFixing.Today)]

Tips on Searching for Answers & Duplicate Topics in the Forum.

It is a wiki you can add to.

Also making one for the editor is something that could be done.
The best part of code server is the HA extension that helps with context and spacing, template formatting, entity lists, and the reload abilities right in the program. Resource hog yes, but it does many many things to help the user.

[boheme61]

Yeah i like(need) VS-Code for some tasks , but mostly use file-editor, and/or raw editor.

However for me to write a “Wiki”, it would require some time, going through my "de-railings " , sometimes i even wonder how i ended up in a particular “side-track” or “ahead of” , and /or people wonder what i mean, because i might already( in my head ) be 2-3 steps ahead / or on a side-track of the "conversation / current state in the discussed topic/planning/progress

But do remind me, as i currently have to focus on getting some firewood down/cut/split n stored, for next freaking cold season