Why are things so difficult?

Configuration
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For clarification, that’s not entirely correct.

You can use Proxmox or other Hypervisor to run Home Assistant OS, and then other VMs to achieve everything else you need or want. You get both worlds - officially supported, “plug and play system”, and the ability to run any other software you like. It has become relatively easy to do this now and is classified by the dev team as an easier install path than running Supervised.

The only caveat is you need something other than a Pi, but low cost second hand machines (I use a Dell Optiplex 990) are the same, or less overall price as a Pi4+PSU+SSD/SD+case etc.

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It’s interesting this because I found proxmox + VM’s to be way more complicated than installing Supervised on Debian… with lots of possible pitfalls as well… running scripts to remove the nag etc, etc… For a new to linux user, the Proxmox path is a nightmare IMO.

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Yeah, I was surprised to read that a Hypervisor install was considered “low expertise required”, but Supervised is considered “expert”. That being said, I think both for a brand new user with no Linux experience could/would be daunting.

I think I made the point some time ago that the VM and “flash an SD card” method should be separated in the Docs for this reason, it really is 2 different install methods.

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I agree. I actually think a lot of people with zero idea of what they are doing (who should really be using HassOS) just blindly follow guides and as soon as there is any deviation they are in trouble because they have no idea what they are doing. Welcome to the forums lol…

For me, I had dabbled with Linux and RPi’s for a few years and have been using HA now for 3 years I think… What I knew about linux when I started with HA could have been written on the back of a postage stamp. Been a great learning experience for me. I certainly don’t see myself as any kind of expert and am likewise bemused that Supervised is considered “expert”.

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Sometimes I think anything where you need to type a commandline is regarded as “expert” - even though you can copy and paste the commandlines. And not to mention that people capable of posting a somewhat comprehensible forum question cannot use the precise same technique at a user prompt. A keyboard is a keyboard afer all.

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First of all I’d like to say that ideas and problems should be expressed with the most careful use of tact when talking about open source project where people donate their free time, as to not to appear rude and/or entitled.

With that out of the way, let me say that I don’t consider myself an expert in most fields concerning this software and I still found it very easy to deploy, setup and use. I’m a field tech working in industrial automation, so my relevant experience is in PLC programming and scada, not very applicable here, still I had no problem connecting all the various parts of my home to HA using guides and whatnot. I have 54 devices connected and I’m always expanding.
I do have experience with Linux but I don’t see it as very relevant if you use the whole OS, it just does everything by itself. I don’t have SSH access and it’s running headless, so the only interface I have is through the browser.

Requiring restarts after changes to configuration.yaml is annoying, talking about YAML honestly I don’t like it in general as a language as well and appreciate the move towards graphical configuration as a way to reach a broader audience.

The GUI is not perfect but it’s improving constantly, just like the rest of the project. I do have HACS and a few custom cards that I’d love to be in the default install, and find current lovelace to be a bit limiting, but, again, it’s a work in progress, so I’m optimistic. I don’t share the modern obsession with “consistency” and I regard different add-ons as separate apps, of course node-red doesn’t have the same GUI as HACS. Home automation of course still requires SOME effort, so if you can’t handle a change in GUI maybe you shouldn’t try to automate your home.

The integrations I’ve used never gave me any trouble, except maybe the BRAVIA one, but it was minimal.

All in all I think it’s important to recognize the weak spots and try to improve them, but the harsh criticism I often see on this board is, in my opinion, unwarranted.
If you want an (arguably) easier, more streamlined experience you can turn to commercial offerings, but you can forget having the flexibility of HA. Everything has a price.

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67

Hi,

normally I would not post about a different project in a projects forum, however, given that OpenHAB has already been pointed to as an alterrnative, nymea (https://nymea.io) might be mentioned too as an option. nymea is somewhat similar to HA and OpenHAB in its purpose, also is open source and follows a local-first approach but focuses more on ease of use. It does not require a command line, knowledge about ssh or similar to get it set up. All that’s needed is flashing the image to an SD card and boot it up in a Raspberry Pi. From there, anything can be set up using the client app on a phone, tablet or PC.
It does have fewer integrations than HA but there’s still plenty and should cater for most use cases. Maybe that’s a viable option for you.

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So just like setting up Home Assistant then :slight_smile:

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Thanks for the link to nymea. I’m unfamiliar with it and, after briefly browsing the site, interested in trying it. I’ll probably install the Snap version for Ubuntu Bionic.

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Yeah I am also interested, will probably add the repo.

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71

I want to agree with the TS here, only would like to add some nuances, I tried HA a few years ago and HA has improved a lot since (for n00b use) but it isn’t there yet. it’s powerfull features (flexibillity, extendibility) can also be its biggest hurdle for the average user that is looking for ‘some’ home automation.

If I look to my own setup, there are just a few parts of my home automation that worked out of the box, other stuff I have to dig into configuration files.

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I don’t think i would run on a router either. the point i was making is that openwrt distro is compatible with a ton of micro machines, iot devices, aplliances or whatever you want to call them.

I was just suggesting that openwrt might be a good base os for the hass core to run on, not that it would be good to run hass on a router.

openwrt runs on many consumer products that are fairly idiot proof but still remains very customizable via ssh terminal or builtin web ui

(plus openwrt maintains the os, not the overworked hassio devs )

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But HA has their own OS already, they don’t want any other base OS, because they want to decide what the OS should do and what not.

That’s exactly the problem, openwrt decides what the OS can and does etc.
You can currently install HA on a lots of different OS, but only Debian and HA OS are officially supported and even for Debian you are not allowed to install anything else than HA. If they start using openwrt it will be exactly the same, sou will be only allowed to install HA,so nothing would change.