Would the home assistant platform makes sense for a 50 apartment building

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I’m part of a team building a 50 unit apartment building, with all units wheelchair accessible. Each unit will be full of smart home technology such as lighting, shades, door entry, building entry, thermostats, AV controls, smart appliances, etc.

Until now, we planned on following convention methods to use Amazon, Samsung, or similar smart home modules to facilitate the use of these smart home devices. We’ve been under the impression that with the advent of matter and thread, compatibility problems would disappear and customization opportunities would flourish.

Having recently discovered Home Assistant, I wonder if the size and scope of our project makes home assistant more appealing or less appealing than if it was a smaller project. Where can I get help in navigating this decision, other than through chatgpt (mostly kidding)? Thanks in advance for any wisdom you can share.

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If you want to run all apt through 1 home assistant application then I don’t think that is going to be a good application. If you want to run one for each apt then I think it is an excellent application.

I run a variety of hardware, and the best hardware is still what runs local. Venstar, Shelly are two examples. I also have an old security system (2004 integrated through envisalink) which allows monitoring company access and myself access. I also use z-wave for switches and to access hardwired smoke detectors. The possibilities are endless.

I also access my solar system and electric cars through HA.

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Assuming you have someone employed to keep those 50 installations up to date every month.

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I am wondering how cluttered the RF spectrum will be if you are purchasing 50 of whatever tech you choose.

As a single tenant in an apartment building, its usually okay as you can choose to use spectrums that aren’t commonly used in your building, but if you have apartments left, right above and below you, I am not sure how much they will step on each other.

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Thanks for responding! Yes, my goal would be to have each of the 50 units have their own, isolated network for privacy reasons.

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No. Home Assistant is a hobbyist application. It’s designed and maintained by a very large number of amateur enthusiasts with widely differing interests and skill levels. There is no technical support beyond what you see in this forum and the documentation is patchy.

As @tom_l says, you would need to have someone whose job it was to build and look after your system, which would be unique, and if they were to leave the company it would be very hard indeed to pick up the threads.

Not a good idea.

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Thank you!

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Home Assistant is a great platform for all what you mention and I believe it can and will be very capable with lots of things you add to the apartments.
But… Unless all of your tenants have addressable LEDs under their wheelchairs and a peltier cooled cup holder then I have doubts they will know what to do with it.
The voice PE (Home Assistant voice) is not there yet to compete with the other of the shelf versions.
You could have both the of the shelf voice and Home Assistant and have them work together and that works really nice most of the time.
But that touches very nicely on what Tom said about, who is going to maintain?

Even with something like a Google or Alexa and just all the stuff that should work you are still putting yourself liable for service of them.
And chances are if the blinds stop working in one apartment, then you have 50 of them to fix/replace due to a company going belly up and their products stop working.

My advice is to think about it, and possibly write legal papers to get yourself out of servicing the stuff if it breaks.
But then you risk loosing your unique selling point I guess.

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Run.
Away.
Fast!

Unless you want a 24/7/365 job for life, full of patchy, unreliable equipment, maintained by anonymous strangers with varying skills and time zones. Even then they will resent paying you a living wage to support free open source software.

Go join a monastry. A quiet life, peace, and a safe place to sleep. Full of prayer and no anxiety.

Oh, as a property developer, make your showers actually waterproof, paint the tops of doors, all plumbing to be leakproof and temperature controlled to prevent scalding burns, make sure all floors are actually level (including the car park) so the wheelchair doesn’t roll away while you are not looking, put your braille signs at elbow level in the lifts so wheelchair users can actually find them, and put vinyl, not carpet in the passageways so the guide dogs are not distracted by strange smells when the janitor spills garbage by mistake and hopes nobody notices after he has cleaned up. Do not use gaudy or dull colors for paintwork, and make the parking spaces wide enough so you can open a door fully, side and back, and leave enough room for ramps, and allocate spots for carers and visitors too.

Go out in the sunshine, watch the kids play and happily laugh in the playground you thoughtfully provided as they play wheelchair football, and watch the pregnant moms pat their tummy as they sit in the park chairs, resting from their daily walk and care for the new generation to be. Yes life can be good, and with the right equipment, empowering for those with challenges not everybody faces.

Up front costs can be daunting, and service/maintenance/repair funds often come from seperate and restricted allocations. Put in the most robust equipment you can source. Don’t skimp on stringing it together with robust software that is user friendly and intuitive to use. Sadly, HomeAssistant may not meet those expectations, built by amateurs for people that enjoy fiddling and customising it. Life is too short to be distracted by Zigbee communication errors, disappearing devices after each monthly update, and randomly rebooting Raspberry Pi’s.

You are in the building game, not an open source developer, or 24/7/365 tech support. Let each professional specialize in their own field. Call in the experts and trust their advice. Don’t get distracted or sidetracked.

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I have a buddy who’s son developed a serious passion for Home Automation. They live in a close knit community so they decided to start a small company that would service a small number of households. They stuck to Google Home and Alexa device installations. At first, everything was as expected, then this pet project got out of hand.

They underestimated the level of service required to maintain this small network of Smart Homes in their neighborhood. They had roughly 75 clients and experienced issues like:

  • Late night and weekend service calls

  • Customer privacy concerns which complicated the ability to lockdown system modifications

  • New device integration questions. Customers wanted more and more smart devices.

  • Users randomly adjusting crucial settings.

Unfortunately, they bailed on the company. The decision was solely based on their inability to maintain the level of service and maintenance required.

In my opinion, HA would only compound the level of service in your scenario.

Your goal to assist disable folks is awesome :clap:, but my advice is to keep it simple. If you go down the Smart Home road, I’d suggest:

  • Do not offer HA as an option.
  • Stick to conventional integrations like Google and Alexa devices.
  • Avoid offering long term support.
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Just to add some personal real world experience:

I looked after my Mother, who was disabled and I used HA to take the strain off of some of the simple tasks. like light curtains and a call alarm for when she needed help.

I have a broad background in IT and was able to monitor and maintain the system myself. Here is the challenge;

It took me about about 10 hours a month to monitor and maintain the entire system and my Mother was not demanding, just happy that she no longer had to think about some of the basic things!

Now times that by 50 apartments with one or more users who ‘may’ see this as an option to solve their needs?

That is quite some undertaking. I am a great fan of HA but I think that in this case you would be making a rod for your own back.

JMHO

edit: just a link for a day in life I did a while back A day in the life of an automated home - #2 by skutter

Kind Regards
John.

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You say you are part of a team building a 50 unit apartment building where each unit will be full of smart home technology. You then say you planned to use conventional methods such as Amazon, Samsung or other smart home modules.

The first step you should take is to hire someone with experience in Smart Home and its technology to be part of the team or out source this to a specialist company.

If you really do not want to add to your team, then start by looking at options which provide standard (non-smart) installation with the ability to be made smart. This will allow the tenant to decide if they want to make it smart or not. As an example, you could use Zemismart for roller blinds which are paired with a remote control - perfectly functional but can be smarter by adding a hub or other smart controller.

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Regardless of the automation platform, if residents are going to be allowed to change anything at all you should consider using an Enterprise wi-fi platform which is able to provide segregated wireless VLANs on a reasonable number of Wireless Access Points. Your use-case is similar to that of a student residence: every resident wants internet and smart home, but no-one wants their neighbour accidentally using their printer or turning off their Xbox

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Whilst this is sensible as you can control the WiFi channels, I disagree with the property developer providing this. Instead they should look at structured cabling and / or fiber - providing each apartment with a physical end point. In addition, they should also run structured cabling within each apartment providing ethernet points in sensible locations (ie. at least a couple by where a TV would be expected to go).

I’d add that the OP has said he is part of a team that is building the units. He has not indicated if they will continue to manage the building.

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You are going to loose your shirt.

Not because HA because trying to force smart tech.

Unless it’s bulletproof works the right way every time it will fall into disrepair and become a source of pain for the tenants turning a feature into a curse.

Thats with just Alexa and google HA is a different beast entirely. And makes the issue an order of magnitude worse.

We all like tk think everyone wants smart this and that. My mom (70s) doesn’t - she doesn’t want anything to do with it. My friends (50s)understand it but the nontechies are easily frustrated. My son (late 20s) will throw it out if it doesn’t work EXACTLY how he wants it.

None of those are HA issues and you need to deal with a variant of each.

My issue. Security. First I’m a byo kinda guy but security and privacy is NOT OPTIONAL. Someone named not me running smart tech in MY apartment (even renting) is a nonstarter because I know exactly what information can be pulled from it. And I’d either not rent or ask it turned off on day 1. Probably the former.

Finally HA itself. No not even a little. It doesn’t have role based access controls which means everyone shares the same pool and you can t lock people out of things. You’re in or out no ibetween. So that means a separate install for each tenant. (then It gets reallllllllllllly complex fast)

Imho I’m not using HA AND I’m running from the project.

Do structured cable some nice leviton light controls and make it where a tenant can connect to it if they choose. No more.

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I totally agree with Nathan: by all means make all necessary preparations, like space for modules and power supply where covers are, deeper electric “boxes” for all sockets (light switches, outlets…) and perhaps draw permanent L and N wires in all light-switch boxes, but only install “stupid” standard switches, nothing more. Note that 50 people will probably want 50 different systems. Not all wants Google or Alexa (i hate both, for example). There are tons of other “smart” solutions. If you install either of smart systems you’re bound to set someone for maintaining them.
But, to answer original question: absolutely not. HA is all but “set-and-forget” system. It requires daily dose of maintenance and a lot of knowledge (and coffee…:slight_smile: )

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Coffee will be ready in 2, Proton.

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And seriously, anyone who knows my coffee maker sits on GFCI 3 can tell I just made some if they know what they’re looking at. No, I’m not letting anyone else monitor my system :wink: EVER.

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I second that!
That IS a problem, i agree. I mean - even if there would be “a maintenance guy” 24/7, there’s a real security risk involved. After all, that “maintenance guy” will have access to all smart thing in certain apartment (correction: in ALL apartments!)

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Hi

Sorry to say but your first statements confirm you have no knowledge how to build a proper home automation system :wink: You should hire a proper company specialised into it.
For the ones stating that HA is not usable in a business or pro location, I’m sorry to say that my company installs since 5 years now HA into high end residential properties instead of the shitty/proprietary traditionnal systems like AMX, Crestron and we’ll never come back at these systems. Ha is far from perfect (but perfect system exists only in dreamworld) but it makes everything so much easier and flexible, easy to maintain,…

Good luck with your project :wink:

My 2 cents,

Vincèn

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I guess you’re right…if you set up HA as “set-and-forget” system it’ll run ok for years… But you must choose components that won’t update fw by theirself (or end user can’t update them either), since in that case there’s always a risk of braking things after fw update.
Just out of curiosity: what do you use for “server”? pi? ssd?