So many times people posting / discussing their frustrations or problems in the WTH section (and generally in this forum) instead of taken seriously get answers in the style of:
“…if the learning curve is too steep for you, then HA just isn’t for you”
or
“…well if you dont like HA, why don’t you use something else”
or
“…why don’t you start writing code and contributing, instead of complaining?”
or
“…just learn YAML”
or the good old
“RTFM”
etc.
This kind of gatekeeping mentality towards people who are not technically as adept is extremely discuraging, drives people away and is quite frankly impolite.
If this is the way Home Assistant / NabuCasa / Open Home Foundation is headed, then I feel a drastic mindset-change needs to happen in this forum too.
Personally I think the site admins / moderators should start to call out people on this kind of behaviour when they see it as it is actively damaging to the declared goal of the Open Home Foundation.
The comments you quote above all sound as if they come from quite a long way down forum threads, when temperatures on both sides have started to rise. I doubt if many responses start like that. If they do, I agree, the mods should call people out. You should flag their posts.
On the other hand, I see that you have posted (I think) 26 38 times in WTH threads, and I can tell you that you already have a bit of a rep as “the Rocket Science guy”. Some of this is of your own making.
Being on alot of different automation/electronics forums i feel like this one the is the most friendly to newcomers.
Since this is a user provided support forum i notice that how someone comes in here will dictate the response they get.
Posting like “this doesnt work” or “x is broken” without providing any real information or any effort from the op of that post tends to get those messages you talk about.
Anyone truly stumped or an issue and is willing to do some effort will get alot of help.
Sure some are bit stuck in just yaml coding, but those are the minority and even they will only chime in when it gets tricky.
I just do not see it being as bad to damage the “brand”. I just see alot of helpfull people here.
All of those quotes you posted are expressions of opinion about home automation and Home Assistant.
What you’re suggesting is that only a certain kind of opinion should be permitted. The forum is governed by a Code of Conduct and it doesn’t rule against telling someone they should explore alternatives to Home Assistant because, in fact, there may be another that’s more suitable to their needs and preferences.
Home Assistant isn’t currently suited for everyone. Telling people that it is would be a misrepresentation and is likely to cause new users frustration and disenchantment. People expecting to learn everything about it by simply using the UI are the most vulnerable. There’s only so much that can be simplified before you must invest time learning from its extensive documentation
Suppressing opinions, pro or con, risks creating an echo chamber. Over the years, WTH has allowed people to express their difficulties (hopefully) in a constructive manner. Not all of them are ever addressed (nor are Feature Requests) and that’s why there are frequently suggestions for how to perform certain tasks (i.e. using existing techiques or alternatives).
Sometimes it means sharing hard truths in order to spare people from expecting something that is unlikely to ever be implemented.
Haha, yeah I’m not saying I am without blame. And I’m not whining about my personal experience here. I can be foreward with my opinions but I don’t mind getting some blowback either.
Gatekeeping would be a “It’s not.” reply to your allegation that you need to be a “rocket scientist” to use Home Assistant and then your topic would be closed.
Your topic remains open to allow a healthy discussion about Home Assistant’s perceived ease of use (hopefully attracting actionable suggestions for improvement).
There’s also the aspect of trying to manage peoples expectations from users who have some experience with hass. It’s not that we are trying to be mean or gatekeeping, it’s that people need to understand this is an OSS project with many of the contributions coming from unpaid volunteers putting in work in their free time.
When we say things like, “stop complaining, it’s an OSS project, go and contribute”, it’s because that’s exactly what many of us have had to do in order to get what we want out of hass, and then try and offer that functionality to other users. Sure, a lot of good ideas come from WTH posts, but at the same time, we try and offer solutions to existing problems or other things to consider.
Sorry if it comes off as off-putting, but like I said, we are trying to manage expectations. It seems many people think of only one use case in a scenario, a lot of times, we offer counter-points to think about. Constructive criticism that people take personally and get offended and then things get heated.
I also agree that there is a lot of undeserved so called ‘hate’ and RTFM, but that’s not the majority of replies, IME. It’s a worldwide community, theres bound to be a mixture of all sorts.
Quite often they’re unaware that there’s already a way to avoid their source of frustration. Some are thankful for the advice, others double-down and become defensive.
All kinds of people use Home Assistant and not all are open to having their opinions and ideas questioned.
…and if I wasn’t too stupid to code properly (god knows, I have tried!) I would be so happy to contribute too.
Yes and I understand that a lot of people invested blood and tears in HA and it can be hard to hear of people being frustrated with it.
Absolutely, and I’m not blaming anyone here. The reason I’m posting this is because I desperatly want HA to succeed in transitioning towards a broadly accessible product.
If people are free to express their opinions, to the extent of misrepresentation, because they’re frustrated then people who aren’t frustrated are equally free to reply. You characterized it as gatekeeping but it’s equal time for pro and con opinions.
I would say hass is like any other fairly well polished project. It’s fairly easy to get going and do the basic stuff for novice users, and it is also extremely powerful for users who read the docs and have some coding experience.
It’s only been a year or so that there has been a UX designer hired, and also the voice assistant team assembled and look at the pace of development in those sections of hass. As hass grows, so will the team, and those teams can then break down into specialities to make hass more accessible for all and far more user-friendly. I remember hass from years ago, and the rate of development these days is amazing to me.
Hass is going to only keep getting better, regardless of what goes on here in the forums. My advice would be to just ignore the comments you don’t like and focus on the ones where people are actually trying to be helpful. If you notice that a post you’ve made is receiving a lot of hateful comments, and you feel it is unwarranted, reach out to the moderators. At the same time though, maybe try and restrain yourself from being negative or responding to hate or trolling comments, it’s just a waste of time and energy.
True that. And I am grateful for it and actively following along this jurney. As a tech-enthusastic architect I’m hoping to implement HA natively in building projects at some point in the future!
Long live HA and the large community of supporters who have created it. Very inspiring and I love these WTH events. It is what an open source community is about. Let’s hope some of the ideas are realistic!
While I would not say it is a “fine manual” at all it is a good configuration reference but also difficult to navigate for new users. If the user is unaware their question is answered in the documentation a link to the relevant part is often all they need.
My approach to WTH moderation:
Close or merge duplicates (no point merging if no one has voted).
Close WTH requests outside scope, e.g. third party or new integration requests.
Ask for clarification if their WTH is vague.
Explain the reasoning behind the current system (offence seems to be taken here a lot).
Provide help to overcome an issue if possible. This may include links to the documentation. Sometimes this solution is seen as unacceptable by the poster so I just leave it be at that point.
Provide a workaround until their WTH request is implemented (it may never be). Again this is often incorrectly interpreted as refuting their WTH.
Items 4, 5 & 6 are the ones we all have to work hard at to not be seen as “gatekeepers”.
This is such a good answer that I feel inclined to mark it as “Solution”, however I am not sure if that is the Idea in a WTH-thread at all, since that would end the discussion (?)
Let’s hope some of the ideas are realistic!