# WTH!? - Why can't we see electricity cost for individual entities in Energy dashboard?

I think the topic states it all. We can see individual cost for sources but not for individual entities.

The only way to get the individual cost at the moment is to add each metered entity under Sources, but to get the total energy used you would need to monitor each and every electrical device in your house (not happening heh). The sensible thing would be to have main circuit meters under Sources and then enable per entity cost for individual devices.

And also electrical cost for groups

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100% agree. Often it is not a case to save energy but to use it in most optimal times and this is where HA can help a lot with smart automations

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This would be especially useful for those of us who have tiered pricing based on the time of day.

To know how much energy my kettle is using it’s not a simple matter of multiplication.

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This has been suggested a year ago for the last WTH. There is also another higher count one. I don’t think they want to add this.

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This one is on my favorite list too… however, it is not as easy to implement as many people think.

For example, if I use 1000W power in my home, 400W is provided by my solar. My bulb uses 100W right now. Power changes/fluctuates as well (clouds, other devices turn on/off, sun is bright again).

So now, after X time I’ve used X kWh on my bulb. How much did it cost?

This is a fairly simple example, which is more complex than just `price X kWh`, but still solvable I guess…
But, take into account solar, batteries, different phases, and possible different energy tariffs depending on the meter/time of the day… all of a sudden this becomes a small “hell” to do right

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But is it really that complex?

We can do it in a simplified manner, at any point in time we know what the total is based on the sum combination of sources. We can then break that down to one of our standardized units of measure.
Then for each consuming device we get the electricity consumed multiplied by the cost.

Is it perfect? No.
But will it be pretty close? Yes

At my work at so something similar but in a much more complex manner. We use a mass and energy near realtime simulation that is tied to the realtime prices, efficiency curves, emission costs, maintenance overhead. Then we track and build the cost of energy as it moves through the network.

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We really don’t yet at this point. For many cases, we do, but not for cases like multiple phases and even multiple grids in some countries.

And sure, everything is possible. I was mainly trying to illustrate it is not a fixed `price X kWh` thing as many think.

…/Frenck

I see that if you solar gives you 500W or 1500W and you need a price for this 1000W kettle, it is not easy task. Then you use second kettle during the same time and the total usage is 2000W. Most probably you can’t buy and sell power with the same price either and so the complexity comes…

Still I think as long you don’t do accounting and compare bills cent by cent based on this data, it would be reasonable to just use some price sensor and then it is up to the user how this sensor gets its data. Does it show you grid price also during the sun or switches to zero is what anyone can configure.

Depends on the country and contract. For example, in NL your yearly consumption is taken and your yearly production is subtracted from that. You only pay the difference of that for that year (or get paid in case you had overcapacity at a lower rate for just the difference).

So many different variables and methods across the world, it is scary…

Ahhh so what you are saying is that currently the limiter is that we are not good at handling cases where their are multiple energy inputs each with their own unique price set.

We solve that, then the per device is relatively easy

Is that correct?

(Granted people in that bucket are probably less than 5% of the user base)

Exactly. For example here you pay transmission costs when you use grid but you don’t pay nor get this part of cost when you sell to the grid. And price itself is hour based. It is always cheaper to use your own solar energy as much as possible.

With batteries it is more tricky and you need to calculate if it is cheaper to charge them and use later or sell all solar excess during day to the grid and buy energy during the night when price is usually much better.

I understand the issues you mention, but so many of us would have use of this function in the same way as it’s implemented for “Sources”. See this WTH as something that’s only for grid only users…

Also, if implemented in the same way as Sources are atm, it gives the possibility for the user to create their own entity with the price. You could then do your own magic with a template sensor for example, which might solve some of the other scenarios.

But a solution that solves every possible scenario won’t ever happen I guess, so let’s not aim for that.

I think that that statement is incorrect. It is definitely possible to implement this correctly, it is just not easy.

I’m starting to see the complexity and the need for solutions not only per country basis, but possibly per contract basis… This is a bucket load of exceptions and different rules to achieve excellence.

While I really appreciate the intention to bring a great solution in to light, it’s also frustrating but to have a basic version of it implemented in an easier way to enable e.g. consumption budgets…

Built-in calculated entity/helper, for entries exposing a “W” measure?

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This together with Utility meter works fine but is a big task to setup and there is no nice dashboard. It is quite simple to show last period (hour, day, week, month) usage using some existing card but almost impossible to create a dashboard that is similar with energy dashboard. I use apexcharts-card for that but for only one device per card is really usable.

From UI perspective it would be nice just to have a toggle between “energy” and “cost” in Energy dashboard.

For example, right now I look at my peaks in the dashboard but actually the cost of these peaks is nothing compared to lower usage thanks to my automation but there is no good way to visualize that (especially per device)

Price per hour

Of course it would be also very informative to see for every hour what appliance took how much energy. instead of daily totals. Sometimes there are still bugs in my automation or other cases that can be optimized even further. Energy dashboard could help here a lot.

Can this not be automated with a tickbox when adding entities to the energy dash?
Using the Reimann integration isn’t a straight forward process for non-techies (like me) “just wanting costs to be calculated” per individual entity.

I expected: “Energy cost helper” where input is: Grind price and energy entity (whether it is kWh or W)

The energy dash settings could have:
e.g.: “Do you want to create a cost calculation entity based on your grids energy price?”

Or would you prefer this to be added to the integrations side where one define the energy price in some general settings page and integrations automatically add a calculated cost entity?

If one goes the integrations path, it’s “cleaner” from the energy dash pov. However it’ll be on one’s own responsibility to graph/keep track of costs per device while still making it possible to “budget” consumption.

I guess what I want here is the ability to assign costs to individual devices which are using power monitoring plugs. At the moment, I can add the power monitor to the Energy dashboard, and it tells me the watts, but I’d like to see at the end of the day, how much it cost to run my washing machine, for example. I’m aware that there may be a way to do this with templates, but I find that that’d beyond my current skill level!

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Remember perfect is the enemy of good! Many of us particularly in cloudy northern regions don’t have grid tie solar.

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