Background (RPi4 + SD Card Yellow + CM5 Lite + NVMe SSD)
I’ve run HA on an RPi (first a 3B+ then 4) for 3+ years. I have experienced no issues with the SD card because I limit the number of recorded entities, use swap, etc despite running ~80 integrations and ~12 add-ons. But, I also believe I’m operating on borrowed time. I’ve wanted to upgrade to Yellow for a while, but knew I would not see a performance boost with a CM4 compared to an RPi 4, so I held off for CM5 support.
Uncertainty CM5 has been available for ~5 months now, but seems to not be without issues, so I’m checking in here to get other’s perspective on the current state (i.e. performance and stability) of Yellow + CM5 Lite + NVMe SSD and to gather any other recommendations.
Questions
Given CM5 is officially supported…
Why isn’t CM5 compatibility mentioned on the Yellow’s page?
The cooling configuration is different, so why hasn’t Nabu Casa addressed that with a CM5 specific cooling kit to replace the components which are included with the Yellow? … similarly, I’ve read about potential case mods needed to fit the CM5 with those cooling modifications. Any truth to that and should Nabu Casa release a modified case as well?
Additional
What are your thoughts on if Nabu Casa is possibly working on a new hardware solution more capable than Yellow?
Anything else worth knowing and would you jump to the Yellow + CM5 at this time?
Thanks for the reply. That’s definitely a fair question. I do not own a Yellow yet. I’ve been considering an upgrade for more than a year. A NUC was on my short list at one point, but I don’t recall all of the reasons why I decided against it. Today and off the top of my head, these would top my list of reasons:
Not ready out of the box or affordably modular (e.g. CM6, etc.). I know this is ironic considering my Yellow + CM5 hesitation, but it also further explains my frustration with Nabu Casa’s incomplete CM5 support of a hardware solution that is supposed to be aimed at the more mainstream user. Don’t get me wrong…I can and have sourced and built computers, but I don’t want to have to with my Home Assistant installation. Converging on a standard hardware configuration that is officially supported by Nabu Casa should be the best way to guarantee performance and reliability.
More power. I don’t need anything more performant than a CM5 (no frigate, Node Red, etc.) either. In fact, with this move, I’ll probably start running a few of the add-ons (e.g., Infinitude proxy) on a separate RPi reducing demand on the HA hardware.
More heat. I run HA in a closed AV cabinet. I know to expect more heat with a CM5, but even a SFF computer like a NUC seems like it would introduce unnecessary thermal issues to manage above that of a Yellow + CM5.
More cost (all in today and future modular upgrades)?
But, (at the risk of dragging the conversation away from my original post) I’m open to specific NUC suggestions especially those which address/mitigate those concerns.
I don’t think either choice is bad, I considered both too and made the other choice. I don’t regret it.
I also run my N100 NUC in a closet. No problems concerning heat. Power use is pretty low too. Wasn’t the PI5 the first to officially advise against passive cooling? So it is not the coolest kid on the block I guess.
As for cost, you can get a decent NUC below €200. So the price is not that different and you’ll have more power and more memory. You may not need it now but it means it will last longer. It will be harder to repurpose the Yellow I think.
As for support, I do not think that will be any less. I had no trouble whtsoever with my NUC. I see more people here struggling with a yellow or green than a NUC, though that my be because people buy them more. Also the Skyconnect did not live up to the original multiprotocol promises. Nabu Casa, as much as I like the company, is probably no match for the big manufacturers in terms of resources and design experience.
I’m a big fan of home assistant on ARM. It’s very power efficient, runs like a charm and provides plenty of performance. The HA Yellow was an obvious choice for me, so I pre-ordered one with a CM4. It’s not cheap but it supports the development of Home Assistant. I have been using it for a while now. The build in zigbee and SSD is all I need. I have the PoE version so I can power cycle it remotely but I have never used it.
Hmmm… I actually did the opposite. When I set up my HA Yellow PoE with CM4 and NVME SSD a few years ago, I actually migrated my instances of InfluxDB, Grafana, and Node-RED from a Windows 10 PC to the HA Yellow as add-ons. This allowed me to shut down the old Win10 PC and reduce energy consumption significantly. No issues whatsoever with performance running these add-ons, plus a few others. Note: I do not perform any image/video processing on this system.
More recently, I performed the CM5 upgrade on my HA Yellow. Since I was already booting HAOS directly from a m.2 NVME SSD, it was a trivial upgrade. I just swapped out the CM4 for the new CM5 and powered up the system. This was a nice performance boost. Building ESPHome projects is much, much quicker now.
Personally, I do not expect to ever see a “CM6” upgrade for the HA Yellow, as I doubt the next compute module will be pin compatible with older CM4/CM5 I/O Boards. Most likely, new CM6 I/O carrier boards will be required to expose all of the new CM6 features. I am very pleased that the CM5 was a drop-in replacement for the CM4 on the HA Yellow board! But, my expectations are very low for any future CPU upgrades without a new HA Yellow board revision.
@ogiewon Thanks for your reply. Great point about my thinking likely being backwards on segregating the add-ons AFTER getting more headroom. My main reason would be that I’ve had to get a couple add-ons working through a no-longer-HA-supported Portainer add-on, so I routinely get those notices from Supervisor. I’ll give this one some more thought.
Any thoughts on the issues/questions I originally posed…especially the cooling configuration, how you made it work, and if/what you had to buy that was not already provided by Nabu Casa with the Yellow?
Thank you. I agree that the CM5 would be a welcome performance boost! Somehow I did miss that Yellow + CM5 Getting Started guide. It basically consolidates other posts I read on the forums.
The heat sink only snapping into the board with two spring loaded plastic pieces doesn’t seem too reliable, so I’d be curious to hear first hand experience on that.
Also, the guide does not mention installations on a CM5 Lite with an SSD (i.e., no storage on the module itself). Would installation via rpiboot surface the SSD in RPi Imager or is a separate NVMe housing necessary like in this video?
As you have probably surmised, the HA Yellow cooling design is not amazing. With the CM4, I simply used the standard HA Yellow design. However, I did aim an external cooling fan over the Yellow’s case. This dropped the temps a few degrees. I have some other hubs sitting on the same shelf (Lutron Caseta Smartbridge Pro, Philips Hue bridge, and Hubitat Elevation C8-Pro), so having a fan blowing air across all of these, plus the Yellow, seemed like a good idea.
When I swapped in the CM5, I simply used the original HA Yellow’s heatsink and thermal pads. Once I buttoned everything back up, I was not thrilled with the step change in temperature readings. So, I removed the transparent case from the Yellow. This allows the external fan to blow air continuously across the HA Yellow’s heatsink fins. The temperature readings dropped immediately.
I should mention that I am not concerned about the appearance of these devices as they are a located in storage area of my house that is rarely seen. Thus, leaving the cover off is not an issue as it is never seen nor messed with by pets/children. YMMV, of course.
The easiest way to install the HAOS for the Yellow on a m.2 NVME SSD is to simply put the SSD into an external USB enclosure. Using your PC, download the HAOS image from GitHub, then use the RPi Imager to image the USB/NVME SDD using the Custom Image option. Once the SSD has the HAOS image on it, simply remove it from the USB enclosure and install it on the HA Yellow board and boot it up.
Note: The RPi Boot utility will only expose the eMMC drive on the CM4/5, not the NVME drive, IIRC.
Edit: Just watched the video you linked…
This guide looks correct to me when, especially when using a CM5 on the HA Yellow. With a CM4, there was an option to boot off of a USB thumb drive to get HAOS installed directly to an NVME SSD. However, the CM5 will not boot off of a USB thumb drive attached to the HA Yellow board. Thus, I believe the external USB enclosure is required.
Yellow + CM5 Lite + NVMe SSD)
I actually did the opposite. When I set up my HA Yellow PoE with CM4 and NVME SSD a few years ago, I actually migrated my instances of InfluxDB, Grafana, and Node-RED from a Windows 10 PC to the HA Yellow as add-ons. This allowed me to shut down the old Win10 PC and reduce energy consumption significantly. No issues whatsoever with performance running these add-ons, plus a few others. Note: I do not perform any image/video processing on this system.