Z-wave devices in secure mode and range

Hi there, I have three z-wave door locks that I have added in secure mode.
One of them has a lot of packet loss and is very difficult to include/exclude.
It is quite far away from the controller (Z-Stick gen5) but very close to an Aeotec Dual nano switch, that is not in secure mode. Will the nano switch act as range extender or does the door lock need to communicate directly with the controller or other devices in secure mode?
The lock sees multiple neighbour devices. But I get the feeling that it cannot communicate via those.

In zwave anything mains powered will act as a repeater/extender for zwave messages. Secure messages will route via non-secure nodes to their secure end points from my understanding.

Thanks, That is my understanding too. But then I do not understand why it seems to have range issues.

What brand lock is it?

ID Lock, Model 150.

How far is the lock from the mains powered node and what’s in between?
Walls, metal conduit, etc, they all can reflect and bounce the radio signal around.

I agree on routing of secure messages via non secure nodes, that’s how it’s supposed to work.
Sometimes, a node ‘can sort of’ connect to the main hub and therefore decides it ‘should’ preferencially route direct. But it then ‘loses’ packets.
This is very UNDESIRED behaviour … What I’d suggest is that you reduce the ability of the lock to talk to the main node. This can also be tricky as partially wrapping in tin foil can sometimes improve the connection (by an unknown variable amount). All you can do is suck it and see.
There are no guarantees however, I consider this to be one of the major failings of the z wave mesh network. But generally the benefits outweigh it.

I just add more powered nodes :stuck_out_tongue:

Try running a “heal” command on your network. This should allow optimal routing, if there are any improvements to be made.

After a lot of inclusions/exclusions, removing node with Zensys tool, removing entities in core.entity_registry, core.device_registry with no luck. I removed the Z-wave module from the lock and installed it in one of the other locks, that are closer to the controller. It worked. I have now put the module back in the other lock and it works as expected. I suspect that when including in secure mode the device need to have direct contact with the controller during inclusion.

Ehh. Not really correct. Zwave nodes default to “last working route”. The minute that route has problems - it’s no longer working and a new route is discovered.

There is no preference for direct routing.

Thanks for the clarification.
I suppose as I normally add ‘new devices’ withing a couple of metres of my z wave hub, then that becomes the “last working route”. And so in a way "I’m causing my own problems ! " (the usual state of affairs :rofl: )
Hopefully then, over time (with the normal ‘heals’ than go on in the normal background) these routes should become somewhat optimised by default ???

Healing should only be done when adding/removing devices or physically moving a mains powered devices.

Healing will send your Zwave bandwidth utilization to 100% for upto hours and just ruin any of the stable routes that Zwave discovers.

I asked the HA developers to remove the automatic healing. It would cause more issues than fixes

Sorry Fish, that’s what I meant by this, I think the last time I manually kicked off a Heal was when I moved the sockets around for the christmas lights, and I did it from bed just before I shut my eyes :smiley:

I find that traditionally recommened way of adding Zwave devices insane. you want it to add and have the network figure out the route. Now… my house is phsyically small enough any device can hit the radio without any other hops but any battery powered device is near a mains powered and so will route through one of them.

I’ve always added my devices from their installed location. What is the “traditionally recommened way” you are referring to?

Bring them close to the hub or the hub close to them.

If I recall inclusion can be routed via the mesh network there’s no need to have them near the hub.

Thats why I always just did includsion from in-place. I never saw and issue with adding devices. I did build the network out from close to the hub then further out.

The “bring the device close to the stick” is really old. Most devices (bar maybe some that pre-date zw+ by a large margin) can be included in place. The only gotcha’s are:

  1. if you have any old Mains powered device in your network that does not support NWI (Network Wise Inclusion) and it’s a “neighbor” of the new device as far as mesh goes.
  2. some locks or security devices that advertise the lack of support for NWI as “security feature”. :exploding_head: