Zigbee wall switch recommendation

Hey guys, first time posting here!

I am looking for a zigbee wall switch that I can use to replace all my dumb switches. Here’s what I need for my setup:

* no neutral
* decoupled_mode, so I can combine it with a smart bulb
* up to 2 gangs
* it needs to fit in the EU electrical housing
* Ideally, it should be EU certified for insurance peace of mind in case of a fire.

Currently, I’ve got a few Tuya Wi-Fi switches which work fine but they cut electricity to the lights. Sometimes they also just shut off, making the switch dead.

I’ve checked out the Aqara E1, which seems designed for EU housing, but the lack of EU certification worries me in case of a fire incident.

I also don’t mind to use a zigbee smart relay, if this would be an option.

Any suggestions or recommendations, folks?

EU is not having a standardization on electrical equipment yet, so there are like 4 different standards in the region. A country might help narrow it down. :slight_smile:

Also remember that CE certification is not requiring any test at approved test centers.
It is entirely up to the importer to make sure that the device upholds the requirement for a CE certification.
If you order it abroad, then you are the importer and you are the one responsible for making sure it can stand up to the CE certificate.

What “EU certification” should that be? :thinking:

That’s my knowledge too.

Almost, a CE marking (because it is no certification :warning:) doesn’t require tests.

Insurances for consumers also don’t require any CE markings because this sign isn’t even meant/designed for consumers at all but was introduced so traders know their is no restrictions to sell these goods inside the European union :bulb:

Beside if you really have some extensive damage your insurance might turn into your enemy faster than you think and all the money you spend over decades paying them for the worst case scenario probably will be used against you so your insurance fights with lawyers and stuff to don’t pay the bill. Even when they are wrong they most likely succeed because they have the time and the knowledge - most victims will grudgingly accept the “kind” offer from the insurance company of paying 10% of the damage without any recognition of liability after years of bureaucracy. These insurance mafias have a much much longer handle then the private individuals that make them rich :moneybag:

As a side note: Sonoff actually started few years ago to get certifications for EN 60669 (“Switches for household and similar fixed electrical installations”) for new products which were obtained by TÜV (Rheinland)

It also was the TÜV which actually gave “safer shopping” certificates to vulnerable web shops :man_facepalming:

The illusion of safer shopping

After the data breach on Libri.de’s TÜV Süd-certified system, security gaps were now found on other sites that carry the Safer Shopping seal - and even on its own homepage. With a series like this, the question naturally arises as to what this seal is actually worth.

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Not really helpful but my little contribution: recently bought MOES TS0013 (_TZ3000_qewo8dlz), I suggest you NOT to buy it. Button back lights can be only on or off, while the other wall switch I have can be light off, lighted blue and red when on, that is much better.
It esposes in ZHA only the button and nothing else (no control for backlight, …). So my only reccomandation here is -do not go for this one-

While I luckily don’t own any Z-Stuff myself - just from reading what troubles people have with these type of devices in general and how complicate it is often to get them working with quirks and stuff without even being able to really own that stuff. :put_litter_in_its_place:

From what I know these Z-thingies don’t allow you to run your own *ware on it so one can change/fix/extend functionalities. Beside Z-technology is often 50 or 100% more expensive than the counterpart with wifi which often (esp, rtl, bk) can be completely owned and come with the “right to repair” for example. :star2:

That’s indeed quite a show stopper - but actually often can be fixed quickly if the wire runs are not to long. Pushing another neutral wire from the next junction box to the wall switch can often be done in a few minutes only (obviously should be done by professionals) :zap:

You could have a look at Niko. It’s a Belgian brand that has been making classic switches and sockets for years but now enters the Zigbee market (watch out: they also have a proprietary protocol).


Z-wave is more expensive, but it is also certified at a test facility, so it works well together with other Z-wave devices.
This certification cost some money and that makes Z-wave devices more expensive.
The Z-wave protocol is made for IoT and therefore provide benefits for these devices and especially battery powered devices.

Zigbee is not certified, but then manufacturers can break the protocol and you then need quirks, but the protocol is still good for IoT devices and especially battery powered devices.
Zigbee devices are cheap, like the ESP32-H series or the ESP32-C6.

WiFi (TCP/IP) is a standard communication protocol, but it does not extend to the application layer, so there is not really a standard for IoT devices to communicate here and it has to be invented with every new manufacturer and sometimes it is just not possible, due to vendor lockdowns.
At the same time the WiFi standard is extremely cumbersome to establish a connection on, so short burst of information and then disconnect, which IoT devices typically do, and battery powered devices especially do, is battery expensive and timewise slow.

Matter will be a mix between ZigBee and Z-wave, because it the standard will prevent protocol breaking, but not actually require a certification, Al though theøat is still a possibility.
Matter is based on the same base communication protocol as ZigBee and cheap devices, like the ESP32 mentioned for ZigBee will work with Matter too.

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Check the electrical code for your country. You often can’t (legally) take neutral from another circuit.

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While I discouraged to buy that specific wall switch, I disagree with this.
I am 100% supportive on Zigbee versus Wifi devices. I regret from the bottom of my heart buying Tuya Wifi wall switches, this is the reason why I bought that one Zigbee Wall Switch. Don’t assume that if that one is not good, all are not good. I have several Zigbee devices that are way more reliable that all other smart stuff I have.

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Uh- That’s what a switch does.

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Well I have over 100 wifi devices at home they all follow my principle of full ownership and therefore run esphome together with “my standard” the native api. Unlike for example ZHA integration which uses only local polling the esphome native api makes use of (the superior) local push :1st_place_medal:

I avoid battery powered devices as they have by far have the worst impact on the environment. Not is electrical energy out of batteries the most expensive available it is often also the most dirtiest one beside more energy is just wasted for the transport :truck::battery::dash:

Best is to use locally available regenerative energy instead of polluting the earth more hazardous waste :do_not_litter:

Neutral from another circuit? Our neutrals are all connected together and only the lives have their own circuits (with breakers) :thinking: But well, I don’t really know as the work was all done by a licensed electrician :wink: But as always… over 200 countries on this earth so there should at least be 200 rule sets out there - hence I said :point_down:

Did you try to really own them (and not just pay money for hardware) yet? :wink:www.esphome.io

Obviously the stock FW is sh!tty like it also happens a lot with zigbee based on the plenty of posts in this forum :man_shrugging: The hardware can be great in theory but if the manufacture ships a crappy *ware you can change you essentially bough garbage :put_litter_in_its_place:

I’m so glad that all my ~100 esphome devices all work reliable - all work the same way - all use local push and all can be updated on my finger tips without being depended of the good will of the manufacture :rocket:

Our breakers have to cut both Live and Neutral together.

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Are you like @gbcatrinoiu located in the EU? :eu: Never heard of such prerequisites around here :thinking:

Typical breaker:

At the breaker/distribution box. Electricity needs two wires: hot and neutral. Both carry the same current so sharing a neutral makes about as much sense as sharing the hot line. A ground line should never carry a current which is the basis for a ground-fault protection. Ground lines can be shared between fixture boxes.

Typical for Europe and in industrial installations. It is possible that new construction or remodeling might require updating to new regulations, but that would depend on the location. There is no requirement in the US for double-pole breakers.

They should be tied together after a fault current interrupter (FCCI), of which there should be more then one. So, not all neutrals are tied together.

Netherlands: circuit breakers must interrupt neutral and live. Germany, neighboring country: only live needs to be interrupted.

NL: wires must be in pipes in the wall. Germany: wires can not be in pipes in the wall (AFAIK).
UK/US: wires can/must be in metal pipes. NL/DE: big no-no.

Go figure.

I had a look at this as well, but although I like the prices their line up, I kind of trying to stay away of it. the quality and software is not always the best.

Not “must” in the US. Romex without conduit is the residential norm. Conduit when used can generally be metal or pvc. Specific use cases may narrow the options.

In commercial installations, metal conduit is required. Plastic conduit may be used in residential installations, but Romex is by far the most common.