okay so it means CB for wall socket has to be 16A, but i saw in uk they sell wall sockets 13A
I am in germany.
I have no problem to use 16A CB, and 16A Wall socket - what i do not understand
why u cant add device which is less than 16A to turn on/off that wall socket.
Assuming that if u plug into constantly powered on wall socket Smart plug which is <16A ; this is not an issue (ie different case)
thanks
thanks
Can we agree that we have a x-y problem here? 
Well, in china they sell you whatever you want, 6A or 100A (might be even same product).
Stay with certified products like Shelly, wire your sockets for 16A and you are good to goâŚ
The 16A CB is the failsafe. Everything on the circuit must be able to handle at least 16A.
okay but after the circuit â ie devices plugged into the wall socket can have different current 0 up to 16A (max of CB)
okay so if i use on 16A CB in the circuit something less⌠and there is fault ⌠CB wont trip⌠and fire etc can happen, correct?
Yes. Thatâs correct
If you have 16A CB and wiring and you plug 10A device to the socket everything is perfect. If that device has fault it starts drawing high current and CB trips before bad happens.
But if you have 16A CB and 8A wiring or smart relay, in same situation the wires and relay would melt before CB trips.
And it doesnât have to be faulty device. Letâs say someone plugs 15A electric heater to the socket, what would happen if you had 8A wiring or smart relay?
Hm⌠just a side comment: many electricians doesnât have a clue about these modules, so hiring them wonât make whole system any safer⌠but it can cause some white smoke escape from shellyâs or/and cause new yearâs bang effectsâŚ
I expect (or hope?) that about 99.9% of licensed electricians in Germany would not fulfill the thread authors wish to wire a(ny) 8A rated device inside a(ny) 16A rated schuko type outlet. 
totally agreed here. Ok, there IS an option: to install 6A fuse to that line 
After all, 16A is only max.allowed current through power outlet, not mandatory, so real max. current could be lower⌠(although i didnât come across such wiring, thoughâŚ)
Or simply use 6A circuit braker.
But I doubt the code recognizes 6A outlets.
@karosm
I was told these shellys devices have their own internal circuit/braker/fuse?
Yes they have. And shelly pm has power monitoring, so it can be set to turn off the load if current is above allowed.
But it doesnât change the fact that everything between socket and 16A CB has to be rated for 16A.
Donât take me wrong. If you buy old house and find only one 16A CB for all sockets in the house and after opening few sockets you notice that some of them are wired with 10A wiring, you could actually use Shellies to protect those wires and limit single socket currents.
But itâs DIY, would never be certified.
So for new wiring, all 16A.
Itâs really not an option if you want to have typical 16A rated schuko type wall sockets because they simply ârequireâ a matching 16 rated circuit (wire & breaker). 
You just canât (by code/regulation) have a 16A rated outlet that always triggers because it got an 6A circuit breaker 
Obviously you can do something your own, but no sane electrician will build such Frankenstein setups 
If you go back and try to forget anything people told you - what is it that you try to solve or achieve?
Shellys are good, however when putting this many devices, I think itâs a shame to go with Wifi. Better go with Zigbee or ZWave, so they build a strong mash.
Just be carefull what you put on sockets where heavier appliances (e.g. washing machine, dryer, oven, induction cookerâŚ) will be plugged in. Those appliances can often have a momentary inrush of power which exceeds 16A (even 20A). Itâs super short, so it doesnât flip a normal breaker, but it will flip most smart sockets and relays (at least most that I have tried). Typical electricity breakers are usually âtype Bâ, and they can tolerate short overloads until they heat up. Smart sockets/relays canât tolarate that. They are closer to âtype Aâ, or possibly even more sensitive. They protect their own circutry and flip as soon as any overload is detected. If you use relays use the ones with dry contacts (e.g. Shelly). As for smart sockets, forget about them, at least I havenât found one with dry contacts.
I had this problem with plugging washing machine and dryer to smart sockets. Appliances are 16A, and I used 20A sockets, and they would still flip pretty often (once every 3-4 washing/drying cycles). In the end I removed the sockets and used a power meter instead, since I just needed to know when they were finished.
Btw. as a side note, do you really need this for every single socket? What for? I donât know how many you have, but for quality relays, it wonât come cheap at that scale.
P.S. Also for this whole 16A debate⌠I donât really get what you guys are talking about⌠6A/8A breakers, donât be crazy⌠Breakers are there to isolate the break to a single circuit, so your main fuse doesnât flip, and to protect the wires so they donât overheat and melt the isolation. If you have 2.5mm wires, put all 16A breakers, that is a no-brainer. Put weaker breakers only if you have thinner wires, e.g. 1.5mm. Although in that case Iâd rather just replace the wires. Anything bellow 10A for a breaker is just nonsense
I am a Master Electrician, and I have HA in my house controlling almost everything. But he need electrician to properly install these devices inside electrical box and than he will configure them in HA.
Everybody think electrical job is easy to do, and do it by them self( most of the time wrong way). Itâs just matter of time to smoke equipment or burn house down after unqualify person do that.
For now the âwishesâ from @phier all seem to violate basic regulations/codes so hopefully no licensed electrician even would install them like this.
Basic problem in this thread (beside the gish gallop the author might unintendingly riding) is that john probably doesnât even know what he wants 
Obviously difficult to impossible for anyone helping him⌠First need to overcome the x-y shituation and also paying attention for providing basic/necessary information tooâŚ
No offense, but paying an electrician to install things like sockets, switches and relays is ridiculous. Itâs really not rocket science and is something every home owner should know how to do. To change breakers and similar, fine, get a professional. But paying someone to install a socket is just throwing away money and time
