Eurotronic Spirit Thermostats firmware issues

Hardware
82

I find the Zigbee TRVs equally temperamental. Some TRVs will just randomly disconnect from the network and on the display will not show the Antenna icon. Removing the battery fixes this and if not, frequent resets are required to repair.

I also noticed that rechargeable batteries (such as Bonai Rechargeable Batteries AA 2,800 mAh NI-MH Batteries High Capacity) will drain within 2-3 days and immediately upon replacement show 5% charge (often also no charge).

I found that some thermostats will randomly go into boost mode or will just open the valve all the way while displaying an “ERR” on the display. After a few resets everything is back to “normal”. Those are not TRVs I would leave running by itself without supervision.

I contacted Eurotronic 2-3 weeks ago, no response yet. I did order the TRVs beginning of September, so I believe that they are not affected by the component failure. Unfortunately not many other TRVs out there.

83

That is an issue with many electronic devices - if you wish to use rechargeable batteries it is best to check beforehand if the device supports that. Rechargeable batteries have different characteristics (lower voltage and I think lower resistance), causing “battery meters” and such components to misread their capacity. Some device have a setting you need to tourn on when using rechargeables.

84

I finally decided to try with OpenZwave and after some digging and trying around it worked out quite well. They look very stable and reporting properly to HA.

Issues still pending:

  • Valve opening is only available via MQTT or appdaemon (the climate entity shows the opening percentage if the reporting is enabled) however the UI does not show anything regarding valve opening.
  • Setting the valve manually in Manufacturer specific mode does not work with HA (I could only do it by directly sending the commands via MQTT)
  • The valves seem to respond with some delay compared to my old setup when changing values from the UI…but this may be because I run everything in a raspberry

What I found very promising is that for example, you can set all the configuration via MQTT like child control, delay of the backlight, valve opening reporting, etc which opens a lot of possibilities to customize…the downside is that you need to find the ids to send the commands per each valve.

85

I think you can do the same via the “original” zwave integration, via node configuration options/protection, via the gui or by service call (zwave.set_config_parameter) - just FYI

86

I’m using Eurotronic Spiritz TRV’s purchased in sept/oct 2018.

I don’t believe they are supported in OZW 1.4, and so I prioritised moving to OZW 1.6, using OpenZwaveMQTT by RobertsLando and now the newer ozwdaemon.

I have firmware version 0.16 on all 4 TRV’s.

in HA they look like this:

hvac_modes: off, heat
min_temp: 7
max_temp: 35
preset_modes: none, Heat Eco, Full Power, Manufacturer Specific
current_temperature: 19.3
temperature: 19
preset_mode: Heat Eco
node_id: 5
valve_position: 16 %
friendly_name: Bedroom Thermostat: Mode
supported_features: 17

Regarding report thresholds, I have mine set to:
Temperature Report Threshold = 5
Valve Opening Percentage Report Threshold = 1

The TRV’s have their own PID logic unless you use them in manufacturer mode - which allows you to control the valve opening directly.
I don’t know the differences between heat and heat eco, i run my in heat eco as that sounds more economic.

I do find as others have reported that the valves rarely close entirely. I can’t say if this is right or wrong as far as the TRV is concerned.

if you are deciding what a demand for heat is (when to turn the heating on) then I guess you will find that saying >0% value opening is going to mean the boiler is on, but potentially little to no heat will get to the radiator.

I don’t know if there is a better way to determine the demand. In OZW 1.4 I used Air temperature and set-point to determine if there was a demand. Problem with that approach is that you are second guessing the logic in the TRV.

in my current setup I have two implementations to determine the demand.

one is per TRV, if the valve% is >20% then turn on heating, if <20% turn off.

newer version averages the valve% over all TRVs, which means one TRV is still enough to turn the heating on, but only if it is very very open. otherwise, all TRV’s need to be fairly open to trigger. In this version, I’ve also set a lower demand for turning the boiler off to reduce frequent and short heat demands.

I don’t think I have any other issues, not the INS issue, or sticky valve issue. However, i did replace all my radiator valves as they were very very old, so perhaps mechanically these are in a better condition. I wouldn’t say I’ve overly tighten the TRV down either, just hand tight.

hope this helps, or helps hope for the winter

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image996×927 97 KB

87

According to the manual there are 2 separate temperature setpoints. One for normal/comfort and one for eco/energy saving mode. If you switch the Preset mode to “Heat Eco” in HA, then you are adjusting the eco setpoint independent of the normal setpoint on the TRV. If you then press the +/- button on the TRV when in eco mode, it will switch eco mode off, and jump to the normal setpoint/switch back to normal mode (Preset=None in HA).

I think the preset mode would be useful if you could switch it on from the TRV itself, but you can only enable it via zwave. I guess it could still be handy, if like me you live alone, and could put all the radiators in eco mode regularly, but then push a button on the TRV to give heating to the room you’re in. But with HA, there are far more automated ways to do that! :slight_smile:

88

Damn, actually I thought that my thermostats have been running fine since last winter, but nothing there.

Yesterday evening when I opened the windows my thermostat automatically goes OFF, when I wanted to close the windows again I was surprised that the heating is running at full power. Then I saw the thermostat flashing and the display said INS. :unamused:

It’s crazy with these things. Now they have at least halfway decent regulation, even if they still reheat and sometimes took a little longer to turn off, but this error shows me again how vulnerable the Eurotronics are.

Now I’ll have to complain about the current thermostat to Amazon, or at best both thermostats I still have. I am so happy with the Eurotronic zwave Plus, but what good is it if they can fail and the heater is running at full power in continuous operation. If that happens when you are not at home for a longer period of time it’s not so nice.

Why can’t there be an affordable z-wave or zigbee thermostat that works properly. Something is always wrong, either you need an additional gateway, the functions are limited or the regulation is totally crappy.

Controlling the thermostat via preset mode with automations has never worked properly and it is also unnecessary. I only work with the heat mode and control everything about the temperatures, and of course the off mode.

Sorry, I have forgotten your question. I can send you my scripts when I get the chance, or I can post it in my old thread here.

BiNiCKNiCH

89

Hello,

Sorry but I had to create a new account, due to a rule that avoid “new members” from replying more than 3 times in the same conversation (this is the 1st time I see that… :smile:)

Here is my contribution with these valves…

I had the same issues as many people (InS and overheat) with 13 valves (1st batch of 6, 2nd batch of 7), all manufactured in 2019.

Like you, getting some help from Eurotronics was a huge dream. I grabbed some information from Aeotec, who sell the same product rebadged. Then I understood that all my issues were due to a manufacturing process issue.

6 of my valves have been sent to Eurotronics for exchange 5 weeks ago. I NEVER had any answer from Eurotronics, and I think that I will never get back my valves… :confused:
Seeing that, the 7 other valves have been sent to Amazon for exchange, and they were exchanged immediately.

My current situation : I now have only 7 valves, all manufactured recently in 2020. They are installed since 3 weeks now. What I can say is that it seems that they are working (relatively) better.
BUT… :

  • I have already experienced overheat issues with 3 of them… they report an opening percentage of 0, but they are not correctly closed. A recalibration, or a “boost-off” sequence solve the issue, as it was the case before.
  • One valve has already crashed (not responding to zwave controller and display locked) : removing/replacing batteries solved the issue.

I have noticed one thing with the 3 valves suffering from overheat issue : normally, during calibration, the sequence is the following :

  1. valve closes until it reach the beginning of mechanical resistance. This is the valve stud starting point
  2. valve re-opens fully
  3. valve closes until it reach maximal resistance. This is the valve stud closing state.
    So that there are 3 valve movements during calibration process.

But with the 3 valves, affected by the overheat issues, the calibration process is not the same :

  1. valves closes until it reach MORE THAN the beginning of mechanical resistance (i dont know why)
  2. valve closes until it reach maximal resistance, without intermediate full opening.
    So that there are only 2 valve movements during calibration process.

The overheat issues does not happen directly, but only after some days of operation. I think that the valve loses the calibration points.

I have also seen that Eurotronics has released a new version of the valves. Knowing them, I think that they have just solved all the (manufacturing?) issues they had, and multiplied the price by 2. I never had such a catastrophic experience with any electronic device manufacturer, with such a bad after sales service (which does not exist, in this case…).

For the 6 vales that I have never got back, I have engadged legal procedures. I won’t let go. :wink:

90

Hi all, I’ve read this post and have some questions.

  • The problem is well known. Isn’t there any firmware update to fix the valve problems ?
  • Did-you notice a difference between the reported temperature and the “real one”? All my 6 Spirit Thermostats report 1.4 to 1.7 bellow correct value. I’ve bought them at different times and got some replaced. All of them have this problem.
  • I changed the offset temperature parameter to fix this problem. But now the vavle doesn’t seem to take this parameter into account. So if I set +1C offset, It will close the valve 1C before the desired temp.
  • Any chance to get the valve report/set available on Hassio one day? I don’t really like messing with the default installation.
91

For your first question, the answer is no. There are no newer firmware available, and as many Zwave devices, firmware updates are not made possible by the manufacturer.

For the temperature offset, normally, it “offsets” the temperature report. Consequently, it should not impact the regulation, i.e. the reported temperature must (normally) reach the setpoint value, even if an offset is applied.

Today, I had 2 valves that made overheats… I had to recalibrate them… I am tired of these shitty products…

93

I have returned my Eurotronic Spirits I don’t want the thermostats that don’t work, which always cause errors.

The functions of the thermostat are great, but it is no use if they suck.

I will now test a Viessmann ViCare thermostat that runs with Zigbee. Let’s see how they work, they are definitely not as shitty as the Eurotronic parts.

94

This is what I got from Eurotronic (3 weeks after contacted them) after I already returned mines for a refund from Amazon:

Hello,

Thank you for having chosen a product from our company.
In recent years, our Spirit Z-Wave Plus surely has prompted many positive headlines in the heating and smart home area.
This has surely approved our sophisticated hard and software technology.

Unfortunately, we had to find out, that one of the electronic components was defect in the delivery batch of autumn 2019.
The failure of this electronic component leads to the often described jump to the „INS“-modus or the overheating. The only thing, which we can do in this case is, to say sorry and to assure you to replace affected products unbureaucratically.
Devices, which do not show the described error within the first 2 weeks, are not affected by this problem.

We would be pleased if you would continue to place your trust in us.

Due to this problem, we would be happy to replace your defective thermostat.

I also asked what is the difference between their version 1 and version 2:

The new model of Spirit Z-Wave Plus has the following advantages: longer battery life, better Z-Wave stability and better regulation algorithm.

We hope that you have still trust in our company.

They can hope… I won’t.

95

Eurotonic can apologize as often as they like. Instead of publishing a list with serial numbers of the affected devices and starting a recall action, the problem is simply hushed up and only on request you get an answer after weeks.

Mistakes can happen, but how Eurotronic deals with them is just bad.

Once again Eurotronic - no thanks.

96

Why they do not communicate about affected items?

I think that the answer is very simple : I suspect that they have issue with a lot more devices than “just” the devices manufactured in autumn 2019.

As an example, I have devices here manufactured in 2020 that suffer from overheating.
I have read in this topic that one other person was affected by these overheating also with devices manufactured in 2018.

I suspect that these issues have been corrected in the “V2 version” of their valve. Obviously, they will not say it.

And as you say, the behaviour of Eurotronic is just a shame. They absolutely don’t care about the fact that their devices don’t work.

97

I think the answer is more simple than that… they have had deals to license the products with Aeotec (at least) going on while these problems have happened. Doesn’t take much thought to see why they’d keep it as quiet as possible.

98

Just to let you know, Eurotronic is working on updated firmware. Hope it will resolve the issues.

99

That seems to be for the Zigbee version? I think most here (myself in any case) have the zwave version. But it offers a bit of hope!

100

Hi,

Some news from my side :confused:

I had the opportunity to test the “V2” valves.

In terms of differences, on a physical point of view, the only difference is the backlight, which is a little bit brighter on the new V2 than on the “old” versions (<2020). No other physical differences.

In terms of functionality, I can not give my feedback now because I need to see if they work better or not during some days. Nevertheless, two “bad” points that I will check during operation :confused:

  • One of the new devices that I tested was very noisy. So noisy that I did not dare to use it. I have the impression that the gears inside of it will break… This device is good for exchange… already :slight_smile: I think that they use bad quality chinese product for their gearboxes and motor…

  • During calibration, I notice the same behavior than with the “old” version : see my post 88. I had sometimes to relaunch calibration by removing/replacing batteries 4 or 5 times in order to get a “correct” calibration process (correct means that I can clearly ear the beginning of valve stroke detection and the end of valve stroke detection)

  • In terms of firmware, the V2 products are exaclty the same than the “old” ones : V 0.16.

At first glance, I am not very confident with these new versions… maybe my opinion will be different in some days…Wait and see…

Nevertheless, I think that Eurotronic has not made a huge effort in this new version… Except for the price, that has doubled :slight_smile:

1 Like
101

I have the new version for a day. And well… same thing different price

Here are some examples of Old and new version… failing to close radiator after small corrections occur.
Old thermostat:
Screenshot 2020-12-07 at 11.18.36

New:
I could feel radiator hot while valve at 0 for 5 hours! and when i did the boost/off it went to cold after 15 minutes!
I moved from Danfoss Z to these, bcause of the Zwaveplus! now i think of setting up a second zwave stick for danfoss only… as danfossZ worked flawlessly for 7 years!
Screenshot 2020-12-11 at 09.02.47

I used both Homeassistant internal z-wave module but also zwavejs2mqtt. Both same issues

102

@Billias:

Having this kind of issue only one day after installation is not normal.

For my point of view, I have installed the new V2 versions since 5 days, and I can say that the temperature control is perfect up to now (and a little bit better than with V1 in terms of temperature stability)

Notice that when doing the calibration of the valve, ensure that the process is correctly done, because even if Eurotronic don’t communicate about this point, I am pretty sure that the calibration can be reported “successful” when it is not, leading to overheats as you describe (even with V2).

Ensure that during calibration the process is exactly the following :

1/ You push the center button when InS is displayed

2/ You ear the valve opening

3/ you ear the valve closing up until the beginning of valve stroke is reached (you ear the beginning of mechanical valve resistance in the motor noise)

4/ you ear the valve opening fully

5/ you ear the valve closing fully (end of stroke, max of mechanical valve resistance)

6/ you ear the valve opening fully

7/ calibration reported OK (22°C is displayed)

If the calibration process is not done following this procedure, remove and replace batteries, and relaunch the calibration process. Sometimes you have to launch it 4 or 5 times in order to get the correct process.

Give me feedback!

1 Like