I can see why you might think that, but it’s actually not the case. Zigbee2mqtt has support for OTA firmware updates, Philips devices appear there and update just fine.
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This thread is about the Hue hub, not Zigbee2MQTT.
Well, some of it is — it’s a very long thread!
But, whether or not you are using the hub, there is is a reasonably easy alternate option for updating firmware.
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True. I have also a account. Created when I bought my bulbs. If they want read my data… What data will it be? When of where my bulbs are on or off and what color…
I read most of time: only needed when you want use it outside and control your bulbs. HA user’s have the mobile app to do.
Basicly I can give hub internet access and keep updating my bulbs and update my ios app.
Only hope that they not update the bulbs with some restriction so you can’t pair then with a zigbee dongle in future when they change or remove the API.
We all know this one. I already have an account. Now blocked my hub and didn’t update my iOS app. But with an account I already “agree” with the idea they store things of me already. So I also can allow hub again to get internet access and update my iOS app to latest version.
sure, as do I.
but the link I posted refers to adding new functionality (Matter) which apparently deteriorated the user experience.
I didnt find out though how the author managed to actually actively install Matter. Other than connecting the Bridges to Google or the likes.
Which mine always have been too already 
I did check the api response from the bridge but no mentioning of Matter, so I am not sure it already is on our bridges with the latest firmware.
only posted it because you talked about fearing new restrictions when updating…
heck thats it of course, the app sees when the bulbs require an update… silly me wondering how it could be with the bridge off the internet. its simply the app (which I do have up to date)
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When I reinstalled my Hue bridge last week in HomeKit it automatically chose the Matter link when I selected Siri & Apple Home inside the Hue app. It was updated some months ago to support this.
Some features I remembered from HomeKit were missing and the Contact Sensors didn’t work in Apple Home. So removed it and now paired it through HomeKit again.
If you pair it the HomeKit way by scanning the HomeKit code on the bottom I could add the Hue hub to HomeKit natively. Works faster and shows all sensors and buttons.
Matter being unstable, is not Hue’s fault though. Many other Matter devices are unstable as well in Apple Home.
Doesn’t sound like a lot alone, but pattern analysis can probably tell a lot about when you are home, what rooms you spend your time in, and maybe even more about your daily habits.
The local API has nothing to do with being able to pair with something else. It’s purely the control of the hub itself, which in turn controls the things connected to the hub. Zigbee itself is always 100% local.
Also most integrations that integrate with Hue will use the exact same local API as the HA integration uses.
For example I can link my Hue Hub to the Somfy hub I have in my home, which will communicate locally as well.
The HomeKit pairing process also works completely without using the Hue app. You would only need the Hue app to pair a light/sensor/button to the Hub, but everything else can be done through HomeKit.
It would be stupid for Hue to fully disable local API suddenly, as many other companies are reliant on that API which are in the WorksWithHue program.
But if they ever decided to go that route, you will always still be able to use a third party hub/dongle etc.
During the pairing of a Zigbee device the connection is not yet encrypted, so the data can be read and replicated to make it connect to something else. So ZHA and Z2M will keep working.
Usually the idea is just to aggregate as much data as possible and send it back to the mother ship. It doesn’t really need a use case for all snooped data sets, they can also find one later or just sell them raw. Having a device (like a hue bridge) in your local network can leak a lots of information about other devices on your network, when they are active and so on.
Then I’m screwed already with Alexa, Logitech Harmony Hub, HomeKit (using also outside of the house), Roborock and PicNic 
Only reason I blocked the internet was: Block updated and maybe shutdown API option in hub in future.
without anything further, this needs to substantiated.
It’s rather easy to simply claim this and not back it up with some serious proof.
same goes here. what proof do you have (read) that Hue Bridge actually does this? Is it in the agreement we clicked yes to?
btw, it would be a rather simple procedure to keep these devices from seeing each other, I believe it was a 1 click option in the UDM pro, and I take it other routers also have that.
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And your iPhone!
No idea, never claimed that. By default every device in your LAN can see any other device if you don’t isolate clients from each other. That is essentially what local area networks are made for!
Also wireless devices (from other networks) can be detected by devices with a radio and send back to the mother ship. No one remembering how google silently did heavy wardriving (capturing full payload data) with the cover of mapping street view?
record all unencrypted packets–or what’s known as payload data–within range of Google’s Street View cars, which he “thought might prove useful for other Google service,”
A 2010 report from Canada’s Office of the Privacy Commissioner, for example, noted that it was “troubled to have found instances of particularly sensitive information, including computer login credentials (i.e., usernames and passwords), the details of legal infractions, and certain medical listings.”
So based on what happened the last decades it might be difficult to claim companies only collect the absolute necessary data - or do you have any proof for this Marius?
Btw: No one (google customer or not) agreed to this wardriving capturing peta bytes of payload data (included encrypted one which probably all can be decrypted as of today). I also doubt that apple specifically writes in their TOS that they permanently scan what devices are around you and that they tag it with gps location and send it home. They will rather write something less self-incriminating like “data collection for security reasons”. You probably will find a similar worded part in the agreement you accepted when using philips hue.
Sure, but if you totally isolate the hue bridge (including from HA) you loose control from within HA…
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long story, but you’re talking about google/iOS, not about Hue specifically, and thats what this topic is about.
but then again, you at least admit this
well, your suggestions made me believe thats what you meant with these remarks
But now I understand you were simply talking about general network concepts. That is ofc a very valid information to take into account when securing your network.
Also, I am not defending HUE in any way.
Its just that we are better served with actual facts, than mere here say and accusing 3d parties.
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So what options are available if we don’t want to use the Philips Hue?
Depends on what your uses are.
So I’ve switched back to ZHA after running into the limitations of the Hue Hub again.
I’ve recently found out that the Hue Tap Dial Switch was causing stability issues with ZHA. Now that I have the Hue Tap Dial Switch not paired with ZHA, it seems to stay stable, even with 90+ devices.
So I’ve decided to switch to Niko switches that use a battery and are more compatible than the FriendsOfHue buttons that use Zigbee Green, which is not supported broadly. I’ve used the FoH buttons in the past with Z2M but it was not stable enough so switched to the Hue Tap Dial Switch back then.
I’ve also tried the Hue Secure contact sensors, but they were really slow to respond compared to the frient sensors I already had.
Now have paired with ZHA:
47 Hue lamps
04 Hue motion sensors
12 Niko battery switch
02 Niko wall outlets with power measuring
09 frient door/window sensors
06 frient power plugs with power measuring
06 Nod-On dry contact relays (controlling heating)
08 Bosch Smart Home detectors/sensors/siren
Little bit fiddly to setup (check out the GitHub issues), but otherwise works well for me.
I’ve got it controlling hue bulbs right alongside wiz led strips and other Wi-Fi bulbs and everything works as if it were a hue bulb. Yes, even entertainment areas and dynamic scenes!
Once you have the addon installed, check out @Mariusthvdb’s thread, his hue scene switcher code is a great resource to learn how to do stuff with hue scenes in HA.