Hi there! New to the smart home automation community and not sure if this is the right category to post this in so please redirect me to a better place if there is one.
As I’m starting to dip my toes in the world of home automations, I’m looking at either putting together a Raspberry Pi 5 setup or just purchasing the Home Assistant Green.
I’m not looking to do too many crazy things, mainly just things like control Android and Google TV with things like the Firemote card, and create simple room by room automations.
I was reading things regarding microSD cards going through the wringer with some Raspberry Pi setups depending on what you go with (Pi 3, Pi 4, Pi 5 etc.) so was wondering if the community had more insight on those vs say HA Green in terms of reliability and sustainability.
About me: I’m comfortable with tinkering and putting simple setups together. I don’t have an engineering degree but I have built my fair share of desktop PCs and have experience with basic coding.
While I don’t want to say price is not a problem, I’m willing to look at more expensive alternatives if they are going to last me longer and I won’t have to continually update or renew my setup. Something in the $200 range is likely where I’d stop.
For the cost of a Raspberry Pi5 and case and power supply, you can buy a used MicroPC like the Intel NUC.
Step 1. Install the X-86 image to the boot device.
Step 2. Reboot.
The micro PC will outperform any Raspberry Pi in every metric.
You do NOT need ProxMox or other VM or Docker or another container. Why complicate a simple installation with yet another learning curve and possible vector for problems?
If you later need to run other programs on the host PC, you can add ProxMox then.
@stevemann thanks so much for your input! Just doing a quick check on Amazon and Google for the Intel NUC, it’s a bit prohibitive ranging from 400 or 500 bucks to over 1000 in some cases.
I am however very interested in learning more about it, and wonder if there are any HA installation guides for MicroPCs?
However going back to the cost issues, I’ve seen other micro/mini PCs out there that may not be the Intel NUC (AMD chips etc) and are in the 200ish range for example that come preloaded with Windows 11 or Linux etc. Would you say something like that would fair better than RPI or HA Green?
As I said, ANY micro PC will outperform a Raspberry.
I have six Intel NUCs here, three are servers, one is a desktop and the others are, just because… (Plus a Beelink and a Promax) I buy them used on eBay. In fact, the most recent purchase was just last week. I never pay more than $100 for a used Micro PC.
Here is an i5 that I would buy if I hadn’t just purchased one.
For reasons unknown, most used NUCs don’t come with a power supply, but they are $15-$20, also on eBay.
If they come with Windows OS installed, get the product key so that you may reinstall the original OS in the future. Like if you want to sell it or give it to a nephew? (For Windows, I use Belarc Advisor to get the product keys). If the original OS is on an M.2 SSD, I just save it and install my OS (either HAOS or Ubuntu) on a new M.2 SSD.
Ah thanks for that! Between when I typed my last response and now, I’ve been googling and watching youtube videos and just as you mentioned, most people compared the drop off in performance with RPI vs a MicroPC like the Beelink you mentioned (the youtube video I’m watching now is also using Beelink). The only thing they mentioned to pay attention to was the wattage as it will be on 24/7.
So that brings me back around now to compare a MicroPC to HA Green. While admittedly I’ve only glossed over the HA Green’s product description, would I be correct in assuming it’s like a RPI that comes prebuilt and installed for you?
@NathanCu as you are the 2nd person in this thread mentioning NUC. Would you say it’s always going to be a better option than a Beelink device for example?
NUC == name brand (Started by Intel, now owned by ASUS)
Beelink == Generic/OEM.
You’ll find tons of names. But in almost all cases the Mini PC / NUC will absolutely blow the Pi out of the water if its less than 2 years old. And put as much RAM in it as you can reasonably afford.
I have both, and a Bmax, too. I personally prefer the NUC because I am more familiar with it than the others. But ANY MicroPC will outperform any Raspberry in every metric. Well, maybe not “any”. I bought a Zotac micro PC for $10 a few months ago and it benchmarks around the same as a Raspberry Pi2. But I installed Ubuntu on it and RTL-433 for my 433 MHz devices.
Again, this is only personal preference, but I don’t like nVME storage, preferring M.2 SSD instead. SSDs do have a finite lifetime and you can’t drop in a new nVME SSD.
What I’m getting is that right now I should be looking at a MicroPC for x86 installations and shopping around for decent specs that are within my budget. Likely used is the way to go, but things get a bit complicated with power supplies but not a huge deal as you can just go buy one.
In terms of electrical consumptions, it seems that most devices are going to be roughly the same as a Raspberry Pi or the difference will be negligible.
Before I leave on this topic and start shopping for MicroPCs, just want to make sure we haven’t left off the comparison to HA green. Again my assumption is that it’s another RPI and therefore the original comparison to MicroPCs holds here too?
Negligible. The rockchip SOC in the green is faster I think, but at the end of the day you top out at 4g ram.
Its perfectly acceptable for a basic install. Probably one or two even addons. But as soon as you start putting memory pressure on it…
And that’s where the weakness lies. With a garden variety miniPC I can. Shop for reasonable price on a budget and most likely something with expandable memory and SSD slots… You’re stuck on the green, and guess where your next stop is?
Btw if you outgrow the miniPC you’re buying racks.
OK thanks all! I think I’m now onto the next phase of shopping for MiniPCs and I’m looking at something between the N100 Alder Lake series or an i3 or i5 core type in my budget range. The Beelink N100s are usually under 200 brand new and hopefully get the job done. But again open to suggestions on anything I might be overlooking.
I’m not quite there yet. I have over 110 clients on my router and a server closet with 5 servers.
HAOS - Intel NUC i3
Plex - Another Intel NUC
RAID - Yup, another NUC
RTL433 receiver- Zotac
MQTT Broker - Raspberry Pi2
I know that (almost) everything done on my server farm could be done on a single high-performance X-86 box, but that would be a single point of failure. Being on separate servers isolates the uses making troubleshooting a little more straightforward.
MQTT on the Raspberry: I started automating stuff using Node Red on the Raspberry Pi, and since many of my devices are DIY and the broker IP is hard coded, it was easier to just keep it on the Pi. Maybe one day I might install the broker add-on in Home Assistant, but that means retrieving devices all over the house. Some harder to access than others.
Now you can see why I call this a rabbit hole. 5 years ago, I just wanted to know if I accidentally left my attic light on.
I haven’t ever seen one, but the Green is a 1.8 GHz Quad-core ARM processor, 4 GB RAM, and 32 GB eMMC storage. So, a third-cousin to the Raspberry Pi. It comes with Home Assistant already installed and is an attempt at plug-and-play.
On the used Micro PCs/ I have yet to be disappointed with used Intel NUCs, so check out the ones I highlighted for you above. Some Intel NUCs do have eMMC storage, but most use an M.2 SSD. Install a 2Tb M.2 SSD and you will likely never run out of storage space.
We acknowledge your request regarding the ownership of the NUC trademark from Intel®.
We would like to let you know that Intel owns the NUC trademark. However, Asus holds a non-exclusive license to produce and sell specific NUC systems. This license also permits Asus to create future designs and offer support and services to customers.
I recently upgraded from a RPI5 to a Beelink Mini S13. Install was easy. Besides the backup not installing without first setting up a new home then restoring, I am very happy with the performance upgrade. Pages load faster and after a rare restart, services appear much quicker. I got the Mini S13 for $179. The main reason for the upgrade is that I did not have a case for the RPI5 with a SSD HAT. My 3D printer has not been used in years and I did not want an exposed device sitting on top of my server rack. The S13 has an enclosed power supply and much more power… My 2 cents. Wait, can we use pennies anymore?
@Todd_L thank you VERY MUCH for that comparison and sharing your experience! That likely saved me a lot of time and grief!
I was looking at the Beelink honestly due to budget constraints and given what I was seeing on eBay for used devices + having to buy a power supply (because those can’t be mailed apparently) it might just be better to get a cheaper new product despite a smaller drop in processing power but within budget.
Also I’m from Canada, and we haven’t had pennies in a while so here’s my nickle?
I started HomeAssistant on a pi5 8GB but found it was overkill. CPU load was virtually always under 2%. Swapped it out for a pi4 4GB. CPU load averages about 10-15% now. Just seemed like better utilization using the pi4.
I’m running a green and I am wondering what addons people are running which would make a upgrade necessary?
As some here mentioned a raspberry is only capable to run 1-2 addons?
Im running duckdns, NPM, Visual Studio Code server, mqtt, zigbee2mqtt, webrtc, vaultwarden (testing) , ssh, multiple hac addons, esphome builder, pyscript and
have about 40 zigbee devices and 6 esphome devices and 2 camera streams streaming realtime on multiple dashboards, with no issues.
Average cpu usage is below 10%
Ram usage is also very low.
The only time I notice the CPU is “under powered” is when I compile firmware for a esphome device…
the usage is max 2 watts which MUST NOT be forgotten. Homeassistant is running 24/7 afterall.
People say raspberry pis are beaten but fail to give a fair comparison within the used power consumption in most cases that Ive seen?
Ofc raspberry is beaten by a different nucs using nearly 3 or more x the power???
Genuinely looking for a valid reason?
I’m getting to a point where i want to move my HA to a faster system just to see if there’s any difference but I’m pretty sure I will only see one during boot or during compiling esphome firmware which isn’t done every day now is it?
I will agree boot times were significant pi5 vs pi4. But as you said, it’s not something you do that frequently once you’re all setup. My pi is networked and PoE powered, single cable and tucked away in AV cabinet. Very convenient package IMO.
As I said above, any Micro PC will outperform any Raspberry in every metric.
I also started with Home Assistant on a Raspberry Pi3 (And Node-Red on another because it was my IOT platform before Home Assistant). I don’t recall why I switched to an Intel NUC, but today with 16 add-on packages, 61 integrations and more entities than I can easily count, plus devices on Zigbee, Z-wave and lots of WiFi, a full backup or restore takes less than five minutes. A Node Red deploy finishes in one or two seconds.
I don’t care that the NUC burns a few watts more than the Raspberry Pi. The increased performance is worth it.
