Scenes.yaml blank yet scenes exist and function

I am pulling my hair out at what could be wrong. Note I’ve never put scenes in configuration.yaml. I’ve only ever created scenes via the UI (new user to HA).

I created a bunch of scenes and they are in use and working. Today all of a sudden via the UI if I go to the Scene Editor they are all listed but not editable (getting the message that only scenes defined in scenes.yaml are editable). When I look at scenes.yaml it’s blank. The scenes again are not in configuration.yaml either. I can’t find them anywhere yet they are still listed and they still work?

How can I get them back editable in the UI or restore the scene configuration to scenes.yaml?

Many thanks in advance.

Scenes created by Scene Editor are stored wherever the scene option indicates in configuration.yaml

I have the following and it instructs Home Assistant to store scenes in scenes.yaml.

scene: !include scenes.yaml

If a scene lacks an id option, you cannot modify the scene using the Scene Editor (it appears in the UI with a ‘no-edit’ icon).

- id: '1601039909001'  <------ This
  name: Test 1
      min_mireds: 153
      max_mireds: 500

Scenes created with the Scene Editor are automatically assigned an id. Scenes composed directly in YAML will only have an id if the author adds it (along with a unique value).

Hi, thanks for the quick reply. I only ever created these scenes via the Scenes Editor (never in a YAML file by hand). Yet all these scenes that I created (15+ of them) are not editable in the UI anymore and I don’t see them in configuration.yaml nor scenes.yaml. Is there a way I can add an ID to them or recover them somehow so they are once again UI editable?

The Scene Editor stores it scenes wherever the scene option indicates. The default setting is as shown in my previous post so all scenes are stored in scenes.yaml.

Given a scenes.yaml containing this:

- name: Test 0
      state: 'on'
- id: '1601039909001'
  name: Test 1
      state: on

The first one was composed manually, contains no id and will appear in the UI with a ‘no-edit’ icon. The second one was composed using the Scene Editor, contains an automatically assigned id and will be appear in the UI with a ‘pencil’ icon (i.e. it can be edited in the UI).

Look in your configuration.yaml file for the scene: option. Ensure there is only one present and let me know what it contains.

Not sure if you are reading my posts are not but appreciate the continued help.
I already noted twice – there are no scenes defined in either configuration.yaml or scenes.yaml. Yet all of them show up in the UI under Scenes. And they all still function.

Did you create them in an add-on of some kind.
I created some in phoscon, the user interface of deconz. They show up in the scenes section page, but not scenes.yaml. they are only editable in phoscon itself.
Sounds like it may be the same for you, did you create them in phoscon, hue or tradfri?

Oh I read it but what you’ve described constitutes magic. If they are presented in the UI, they must exist somewhere.

What I asked is if the scene option (not the scenes you may have defined but just the keyword “scene:”) is present in configuration.yaml. Something like this:

scene: !include scenes.yaml

If it’s not present then how about this:


That’s a good question and I can add the UPB integration to that list (because it can also report scenes that were defined outside of Home Assistant). FWIW, the OP did state that the Scene Editor was used exclusively:

Hi, No, not created anywhere else… Just in the normal Scene Editor.
I can’t understand that if they aren’t in configuration or scenes.yaml how they are still functioning… This is really perplexing and really hoping I don’t have to create them all just to edit them (lots of work went into them)…

Thanks, I did confirm these two lines are in configuration.yaml… But with nothing in scenes.yaml not sure where it could be still present at/why they are still functional??

Within the config directory there’s a hidden sub-directory called .storage containing several files that are not meant to be touched. This is where various things are stored like which integrations you use, the entities that have been defined (automatically via integrations), various helpers you may have created via the UI (input_boolean, input_datetime, etc), and several things. What’s not stored there are scenes. They get stored in the visible places I’ve already described.

Not sure what else to tell you other than nothing here appears to add up.

Does that scenes.yaml file (the one you found) gets modified (date/time) when you add another scene?

I added a new scene in the UI and it added ok… scenes.yaml updated with it. But no mention of any of the other ones in configuration.yaml or scenes.yaml

UI Showing the Scene Selection

cat of scenes.yaml

cat of the entire configuration.yaml

I posted screenshots of the UI plus two yaml files being ran though cat…
Any ideas on anything else I might be able to do to help recover them?

It doesn’t make sense, just like @123 wrote…
Did you reload the scenes/restart your HA in between?
=> asking this because not restarting might be the reason that the old scenes still work - just a wild guess, not an expert here.

What kind of setup are you running?
Did you do something particular on the way to make your setup non-standard?

Given that they allegedly can’t be found, yet according to the UI they exist, I don’t know from where one would “recover” them (other than your last snapshot). :man_shrugging:

Hi, yes, I have restarted services and even rebooted the whole system – the scenes remain there and fully functional. I’m glad I’m not loosing my mind here :wink:

As a new user to HA really hesitant to rebuild all these scenes because they took a lot of time to create and never had something fail like this/don’t want to reinvest time without knowing what happened/concerned it could happen again…

Nothing really non-standard. Not using any third party plugins/services/exotic form factors. Running the virtual appliance in VMDK format right from HA without any modifications.

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Hi Patrick,
I agree with you, same situation here. I started to use HA back in january created 2 scenes back there. Also only in Scene Editor. Now they are non editable and not in the config.
I do use also the VM version. I have had a look and can see that i started with the 5.12 OVA disk. Maybe it is related to that kind of setup?
did you find anything?

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