Hi,
Currently I have a wild mix of different kinds of devices, but after reading a lot, I want to start building a Zigbee network and use these devices in the future.
As a first device, I want to have a 4-button remote control to trigger some actions on HA. I thought of this kind (option 1, option 2), but don’t understand the difference. They look identical to me except for the price.
Additionally, I will need a Zigbee Transceiver for HA. After some reading, I am still not sure if the Sonoff Dongle-E or Dongle-P would be the better option - lots of different opinions there and I guess some of them are also outdated. Would either of those be advisable or should I rather go with a SMLIGHT SLZB-06 that has also been recommended a few times?
Lastly, when building a new network, should I go with ZHA or Z2M? I read that the transition can be tedious, if the network has become large, so I would like to be on the right ship from the beginning.
Different sellers sell on different prizes. They should/could be the same.
Go buy both, and try it out. I wont guarantee but i am 90% certain that this is going to work.
I could not find them though on
or
on first glance, so do it on your own responsibility!
Sources? I cant say if they are good or bad, just try it in worst case.
Since you are a beginner I would recommend you to just use Home Assistant Connect ZBT-1 - Home Assistant in case of doubt since this is a nobrainer imo.
It is like asking: should i buy a sportscar or a minivan?
And the answer is: IT DEPENDS on so many factors but bottom line as far as I have experienced from myself and my friends.
Bottom line dumbed down:
If you want a “native” and braindead solution go to ZHA
If you want more Devices but maybe need to read into it more, go to Z2M
I personally like Z2M more because the docs to pair supported devices are so much better documentated than with ZHA. Also they seem to support more devices than ZHA reliably.
My best friend likes ZHA because of the seamlessness and less clicks you need to do, so depending on what you want to have I guess.
oh! didnt realize to be honest. Haha.
Then I guess they might be different revisions maybe.
Nevertheless LoraTap Remote 4 Button SS6400ZB-V2 Zigbee compatibility has ali-referenced links (top right) so I would stick to the referred links.
Everything else could be problematic. Otherwise ask the seller on Model-Number maybe, but to be honest I would not invest so much time for 1 or 2 Euros.
I oftenly bit the bullet and just bought a device and just tried it out (with a high success rate).
There are 10 times smarter or cheaper ways where you need to diy/flash something or so.
But nowadays im just tired of tinkering too much. So like I said (sportscar vs minivan) it depends on how much time you need on servicing/investing time or doing the prepwork.
Sonoff Dongle-E and Dongle-P have different chipsets.
If you intend on using Z2MQTT instead of ZHA for your ZigBee integration, verify
the integration supports the dongle chip and ensure it is considered stable.
I prefer LAN coordinators like the SMLIGHT SLZB-06 vs a USB dongle, but that is a personal preference. I converted my Sonoff dongles to routers.
I would actually like that, too. But it’s hard to find out which ones are compatible with ZHA and Z2M. I saw there’s the SLZB-06 and the SLZB-06M and one is meant for ZHA and the other for Z2M. But since I don’t know yet what I want to use, is there also something available that works well with both ZHA and Z2M?
You can’t make a Zigbee network out of devices like buttons and sensors. You have to start with routers - mains powered devices like lights and sockets. It’s these that make the network. It will depend on the structure and layout of your home but it’s not uncommon to have 20 or more.
You have to pick one or the other. You can run both, but you need two coordinators and your devices won’t connect to both. There’s really nothing to choose between them. If you like tinkering, Z2M is more interesting. If you just want the light to go on and off, choose ZHA.
I can start with just a coordinator and a remote control, though, right?
Understood, but since I have no experience with either of them, I would like to try out both - not simultaneously, of course. So it would be nice to have Coordinator that works with both.
However, before @andreaskoelsch dives down the Zigbee rabbit hole he needs to understand that it’s designed to be a “black box”, self-configuring and self-healing. The bells and whistles (in Z2M and ZHA) create an illusion of control, but in the end it has to sort itself out. Most problems can be resolved with a few more routers.
The 3 & 6 button versions are definitely supported under Z2M, while the 4 button is only confirmed working with Tasmota and Deconz according to the Blakadder site.
You might get it working in Z2M since it just seems to be a V2 version of this device, though your mileage may vary and you might need a custom converter/quirk for this.
Definitely not something I would recommend to someone who’s just starting out.
@jackjourneyman has it spot on regarding the Zigbee network requiring a mesh. You will run into issues if you only have that remote + a coordinator, especially if they’re not in the same room.
Read this and familiarise yourself with how zigbee works first - we’ll be happy to answer any further questions you might have after you’ve done your research.
Okay, that’s a bit of a bummer. Do I understand it correctly that mains-powered routers have a better range than battery powered devices? Let me explain my situation and idea. The planned position of the coordinator will be in the living room (center of the apartment), remote control in bed room. Direct distance between the coordinator and remote control will be <5m, but with a wall in between. Walking distance would be ~15m, through the hall, two doors. Is the <5m distance with a wall already too much for a battery-powered button? If so, would it help to just replace my phone charger in the bedroom with something like this? Or would I also need routers in the hall, because the signal cannot travel through walls at all?
I’m a newcomer too. I’ve come across a couple of situations where I might have been able to “fiddle more” if I was using Z2MQTT rather than ZHA and it looks like I would have a fair amount of grief swapping the existing over (now that I have build some code based on ZHA).
I’d appreciate hearing if seasoned users agree, or if it would actually be pretty straightforward to change, retrospectively. If its a lot of hassle that might be a reason for starting out using Z2MQTT ?
I have the Home Assistant Connect ZBT-1. It came with an extension cable (which I had read is important, in order to get it away from interference from e.g. WiFi). I also have a USB Z-Wave dongle, which is plugged straight into the Raspberry PI USB socket (don’t know if that would be better with an extension cable too). But that said I only have a couple of Z-Wave devices, the vast majority of mine are Zigbee.
I have a large house and I will also encounter this problem (currently my experiments have all the sensors close to each other). My plan is to use smart plugs (Zigbee protocol). Either just plug them into a powered socket, or actually use them to, also, control something - and have the side benefit of “mesh” extension of the network. I don’t know if this is the best practice though.
A Zigbee network is a mesh of mains-powered devices (routers). It should blanket the property, so that every router can connect to every other router either directly or via its immediate neighbours.
Battery-powered devices (end devices) are not part of the mesh. They attach themselves to a nearby router (the one with the best signal) and use the mesh to forward their data to the coordinator, and hence to HA. They change their connection periodically according to conditions, but they make no contribution to the mesh.
All Zigbee signals are weak with very little penetrating power - this is by design, otherwise you couldn’t have small, inexpensive battery-powered end devices. Messages get passed around between routers until they reach their destination. A dense mesh is very resilient because there are many different routes for messages to take. Range should not be an issue.
This is where I usually wade in on the ZHA vs. Z2M debate…
How about you try the easy way first, ZHA?
If that fails, you can always dig out the books, spend some time learning, load another layer of software, possibly buy additional hardware to support it, and try Z2M.
I never got to that second step. ZHA has done everything I’ve asked of it, so why complicate my life? Not that I wouldn’t like playing with a new toy, but I’ve never run out of other fun things to do with HA.
Does this mean, if I want to reach from bedroom to living room, I have to go via the hall and put an extra router there? Or can I directly connect from bedroom to living room if there’s just a single wall in between?
You probably would, but the brutal fact is that fiddling doesn’t make much difference. Zigbee is self-regulating and self-healing. Many people find this quite frustrating.
Don’t forget that ZHA and Z2M are only integrations - the Zigbee network remains exactly the same whichever one you use.
The main difference between them is “philosophical”. Z2M provides a handler for every supported device. ZHA aims to support any device that follows the Zigbee protocol correctly. Sadly many devices don’t implement Zigbee properly, particularly the cheaper ones, and it’s part of the protocol that manufacturers can add features of their own. Special handlers have to be written for those.
In practical terms, the big difference is that Z2M can provide a very helpful list of supported devices. With ZHA you have to do a bit of research. It’s not true that Z2M supports more devices - it’s just much easier to find out what they are. There’s no way to tell how many devices ZHA supports.
Good approach. In a large house you’ll need a lot of routers (Zigbee isn’t cheap, in spite of appearances). Large rooms, on the other hand, are sometimes easier because there are fewer obstacles. Basically, keep on adding routers until it works.
Although you’re still thinking linear. The best approach would be to have two or three routers in the bedroom, two or three routers in the living room and two or three routers in the hall. Plus routers on the floors above and below if you live in a house. They will sort themselves out.
Going back to your original post - are you sure that Zigbee is the best solution? If you just want to make a few direct connections wi-fi might be much better.
I have lots of devices separated from each other by one or more walls. For a long time a battery-powered Zigbee temperature sensor lived in my basement with no routers down there at all. I have one smart plug in my shed, about 40 feet from the house, which gets a signal from a plug inside the house. From there the smart switch in a switch box inside the barn, another 20 feet from the shed, gets a good signal which then reaches a couple of devices on the second floor of the barn. Just recently I put a Zigbee temperature sensor in a metal-walled RV parked about 20 feet from the house.
My point is, just put the devices where they need to be. If you find one is too remote from the rest, stick a smart plug somewhere in between.
I also thought about using a 433 MHz remote, as I have some proprietary plugs with a remote control that run on that frequency. The range of the remote controller is really good, can easily go through a couple of walls and the 12V battery lasts for ~5 years. I built something with a raspi a couple years ago to send commands to the plugs, but I have not set up a receiver. And 433 MHz support is kind of experimental and really not widespread in HA. Therefore, I decided to go for Zigbee.
Sounds promising! I think, I’ll just just order that remote control and a Zigbee stick and try it out! Worst case, I’ll get a couple of plugs and replace some of my current wifi plugs with zigbee ones
I wont guarantee but i am 90% certain that this is going to work.
