Unhealthy state

[DavidFW1960 (David)]

@Petrica

Was wondering if Supervised on Debian 10 still get unhealthy if installing virtualization software to run Docker

I have zero idea what you mean. Proxmox is effectively Debian and the VM will run whatever you configure… be it Debian + Supervised (works as supported fine) or HA OS also working as supported or Debian + Supervised also supported. (I have all 3 … 2 as Proxmox VM’s and one straight Debian + Supervised) So your question is a mystery.

[Petrica (PetricaM)]

Was referring that adding a virtualization software to Debian 10 whilst it runs Supervised Home Assistant (basically having a bunch of Dockers that are not related to HA) it would get it unhealthy, thus it would be better to simply go HAOS.

The second part was about options that would allow web management of two separate VMs (one for HAOS and one for a random Linux distro).

[DavidFW1960 (David)]

@Petrica

Was referring that adding a virtualization software to Debian 10 whilst it runs Supervised Home Assistant (basically having a bunch of Dockers that are not related to HA) it would get it unhealthy, thus it would be better to simply go HAOS.

Well why would you run virtualisation software in that situation? I run Supervised with a bunch or other containers for other purposes and it’s supported. You pretty much can’t do that if you run HA OS at least it’s harder and you’d use Portainer to run up the other containers in HA OS. I don’t know why you would do that. If you want to run VM’s just use Proxmox and then HA in either HA OS or Debian + Supervised…

[kanga_who (Jason)]

@Petrica

Celeron to a Core i3 8109u

I have a Proxmox test system set up on on old Dell Inspiron laptop with an ancient Core2Duo and 2gb RAM. Your NUC will run Proxmox fine.

If you want to run VMs I would suggest doing it using Proxmox.

[Petrica (PetricaM)]

@DavidFW1960

Well why would you run virtualisation software in that situation? I run Supervised with a bunch or other containers for other purposes and it’s supported. You pretty much can’t do that if you run HA OS at least it’s harder and you’d use Portainer to run up the other containers in HA OS.

Because I’d need a monitoring tool like Watchtower/Ouroboros for other containers that are not maintained by HA developers (and HA supervisor doesn’t like those), which was possible until recent reinforcement of health requirements.

[kanga_who (Jason)]

@Petrica

Because I’d need a monitoring tool like Watchtower/Ouroboros for other containers that are not maintained by HA developers

HA OS in one VM, a second VM with something like Debian/Ubuntu to deploy everything that uses Docker. You can go nuts with Watchtower and so on without effecting HA, or it being supported.

[Petrica (PetricaM)]

@kanga_who

HA OS in one VM, a second VM with something like Debian/Ubuntu to deploy everything that uses Docker.

Yeap, done that with both Windows and Ubuntu host machines. However, it is not an option to administer the host from a corporate laptop that doesn’t allow installation of any software or the use of remote desktop software, or from a tiny phone screen (thus the web based solution).

[DavidFW1960 (David)]

@Petrica

Because I’d need a monitoring tool like Watchtower/Ouroboros for other containers that are not maintained by HA developers (and HA supervisor doesn’t like those),

Yes Watchtower won’t work. I use Docker-compose with a cronjob running every 12 hours.

[jo-me (Jochen Mehlhorn)]

I’m fine with having an “unsupported” OS.

But I’m not fine with imposing restrictions on the host system for features that are irrelevant for supervised installations anyway. Like “observer”, “dns”, “network”…

And not fine with forced spontaneous updates outside of the normal release cycle.

The supervisor should differentiate between running on the Home Assistant OS (or supported installations) and other installations and adapt its feature-set and checks accordingly. Supervised installs don’t have those strict security requirements or necessity to change host network stuff via UI.

I’m pretty sure that it is not really necessary to use exactly docker v19.x to start/update/stop containers. But v18 is unsupported and v20 as well… I do understand that the devs want a certain version to test against and not 5. Great, but you could still build it in a way that other versions (that only appear on rogue supervised installations) are not automatically blocked overnight or use the common feature set wherever possible. Same goes for network manager.

And about the “supported” supervised installation: Having a supported OS with restrictions on what to install alongside it defeats the purpose of a supervised installation and a docker-based application in general. I will certainly not switch to Debian only because of that. Those requirements might change again over night and tomorrow you find yourself being forced to use a different Debian version or some kind of custom HA Debian fork.

And what if other software behaved like that? Imagine if Nextcloud’s docker version only worken on Arch hosts, or Plex’s container only on Redhat hosts.

Too bad that the great improvements to HA core in the last releases are somewhat overshadowed by this stuff.

[DavidFW1960 (David)]

No one is forcing you to use supervised there are many installation methods you can use. If you want supervisor, these are the requirements.

[nickrout]

If you want a supervisor and your own choice of linux to run on the same machine, do as has been suggested in this thread and elsewhere. Install proxmox+hassos+otherdistro+whateveryouwant.

[LongDono]

Sigh. Disable the supervisor feature as alluded to by ludeeus (thanks):

/usr/share/hassio/homeassistant$ ha jobs options --ignore-conditions healthy

No one wants to told they have to change the OS they used for years or decades (especially those with more than just HA on their home server). Or to be told their system is unhealthy and HA rendered broken as a… protection. Yes, the decision was made. Did everyone agree with it? No. Doesn’t mean it needs to be mentioned constantly like we voted on it. Likewise, we can’t stick our heads in the sand either. If we all just did as told the first time (no more supervisor), supervised would already be gone. It’s okay to have a different opinion and to find workarounds for issues to support our unsupported systems. That is our option. It’s just not supported by the developers, hence why we are here in the community to find a fix. Use the fix, continue on, or move on. Sorry, had to be said.

Stay safe, everyone.

PS: You’ll still get the unhealthy state error message, but you’ll be able to upgrade, etc. You’ll also have this in your logs:

20-12-11 18:26:33 CRITICAL (MainThread) [supervisor.jobs] The following job conditions are ignored and will make the system unstable when they occur: {<JobCondition.HEALTHY: 'healthy'>}

PPS: I updated Ubuntu and restarted the OS just now and HA is no longer unhealthy. I spent quite a lot of time looking at other install methods and frustrating myself in the meantime. Sorry if I overreacted, covid times are hard on us all.

March 2020: I built a completely new server/desktop with ProxMox, 64gb ECC RAM, etc. It runs Ubuntu as a VM, Windows 10 as a VM, and of course, Home Assistant as an appliance. I have passed through the GPU so I can play games in Windows 10 with this system, and it replaced two separate tower PCs (and lowered power consumption). I saw a like on this post when I logged in and want to acknowledge that, as time goes on, it should be time to investigate your options and move on. I thought ProxMox was a horrible setup due to some misconceptions I had learned about it, probably from older or incorrect websites. Now I swear by ProxMox, especially on newer hardware.

[dereitz (David Reitz)]

I was seeing this error as well and fixed it by replacing my /usr/sbin/hassio-supervisor with the new one from https://raw.githubusercontent.com/home-assistant/supervised-installer/master/files/hassio-supervisor. You’ll need to update the CONFIG_FILE parameter and then systemctl stop hassio-supervisor.service / systemctl start hassio-supervisor.service.

Once I had that error cleared, now I’m seeing the error about network-manager being too old since I’m running Ubuntu 18.04… Will have to figure that out next.

[123 (Taras)]

@dereitz

network-manager being too old since I’m running Ubuntu 18.04… Will have to figure that out next.

Two choices:

1. Install a newer version from an unofficial repository.
2. Upgrade to Ubuntu 20.04.

Unhealthy state

You can update your system with unsupported packages from this untrusted PPA by … Thanks for the tip. Seems like the most painless way to get a more recent version of Network Manager on 18.04 but the ‘unsupported/untrusted’ aspect makes me leery. For a short-term fix, I think I’ll upgrade from 18.04 to 20.04 on the existing old hard-drive; long-term fix will be Debian 10 on a new SSD. Should’ve paid closer attention to the Black Friday sales for computer components … UPDATE …

[avd706]

~$ apt policy network-manager
network-manager:
  Installed: 1.22.10-1ubuntu2.2
  Candidate: 1.22.10-1ubuntu2.2
  Version table:
 *** 1.22.10-1ubuntu2.2 500
        500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-updates/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     1.22.10-1ubuntu1 500
        500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal/main amd64 Packages

[123 (Taras)]

I can post the same screenshot for you from my system. What was the intent there?

[avd706]

upgrade your ubuntu to 20.04

[123 (Taras)]

If you look at the link in my previous post you’ll see that I upgraded to 20.04 nine days ago.

[dereitz (David Reitz)]

Yes, thanks so much for the info! I had gone with option #1 and after a few other issues, I was able to finally upgrade to 2020.12. Cheers!

[Moonshine (James)]

@LongDono

Sigh. Disable the supervisor feature as alluded to by ludeeus (thanks):

/usr/share/hassio/homeassistant$ ha jobs options --ignore-conditions healthy

Was going to backup and try this route, as any OS upgrade or migration right now would trigger a cascade of events for my setup. Shouldn’t have clicked that update Supervisor button, but things have worked so well for sooo long.

I have two questions though…

• I assumed that ha command was inside the HomeAssistant container, or potentially Supervisor container or on the host itself, but I don’t see it anywhere in my install. What generally provides that command?
• ludeeus mentioned it could also be accomplished by “creating a file in the data dir for the Supervisor”. I’d actually prefer that route, but am not sure what “a file” refers to name/location wise or the syntax involved. Would someone have clues on that?

Thanks!