Which ZWave Stick with RPI 4 (Aeotec not working without HUB)

Hardware
1

Hi all,

I plan to have this setup
Decidated Setup ZWAVE and HASS by MQTT

Therefor I would like to have an USB Stick which fits to Standard USB rules.
Unfortunately the Aoetc Gen 5 does not and only works with a USB Hub 2.0 in between.
RPI4 and Aoetec not working without HUB

So, what do you think, waiting for a solution by Aeotec or do you know working alternatives?
Somewhere I read that the inclusion by Aetec thru the Button on the stick is anyhow not working/recommended to use, right?

1 Like
2

I have the same question :slight_smile: !
Thanks

3

I believe I read somewhere that using the button on Aeotec to include doesn’t do it securely - and if you want a private network_key on your ZWave network you’re best off (aren’t allowed to?) not using the button to include new devices - but rather only add within HA.

Anyhow, and this is my personal opinion only, instead of upgrading to SSD on Pi3, or upgrading to Pi4 then SSD on that (b/c of SD card frying issue[s]), I purchased a refurbed NUC on ebay for around $200.

I currently have the Aeotec ZWave stick plugged into this and have a few devices setup through that - but mostly am still leveraging SmartThings hub for Zwave control. Nice thing is this doesn’t take down / restart my ZWave network every HA reboot (I realize some will say this isn’t a big deal, but [for me], I prefer this).

Anyhow, nothing against a Pi4 running HA, but I figured if I’m entrusting a device to run my home automation then I might as well not use one that’s destined to fry its own SD card eventually - and the NUC is more upgrade friendly and better equipped to handle add-ons (RTSP, face recognition, larger ZWave networks [if I stopped using ST], ad-blockers, etc…). Not saying Pi’s can’t do these things, but more power w/ a NUC is more better, IMO.

4

The docs list the known working controllers. Any of those will work fine.

5

I have been using an aeotec Z-Stick for approx 4 years on a raspberry pi 3 with an sd card, though have recently moved to a 32gig card.
With regular (not true, just when I change anything that would be a pain to do twice) backups (snapshots are brilliant).
I could replace my system many times for $200
And being without automations would only be an inconvenience for 20mins or so.
You should not use the button to include items, not all attributes/information seems to populate.
You should not use secure include either (unless required - locks etc. or needed - say to use scene controllers)
Secure comms uses 4 packets vs 1 for standard - this slows your network down considerably.
Who, are you afraid, will co-opt your light switches, turning your lights on/off from your front garden ? Given that they would need to mimic a device already included or to take control/mimic the primary controller.
How much effort just to switch a light on ?
I typically wire up new device so it can be included about 1 to 1.5m from my z_stick, do basic renaming and configuration before installing it.
I don’t understand what you mean about “(Aeotec not working without HUB)”
My processor runs at about 1% with loading at about 0.02 with 43 z-wave nodes, so power is not a problem.

6

See here or here.

7

Tinkerer, thanks for that but…

  1. It does work without a USB hub, as my usage case with a pi 3 (but admittedly not with a pi4)
  2. I thought that though they (previously) acknowledged that there was a problem with the first set of pi4 usb ports, but that this had been fixed in the new release (not 100% certain of that).

It was the ommision of USB that threw me. I assume a smart things hub or some such.
Agreed - that “I” would need confirmed peer review verification of compatibility before I stated catagorically, so I won’t.
So okay get your gist :blush:

8

wow.
I just recognized that I have some replies here;)

Ok first if all, thanks for the infos including the performance of the raspberry.
But if you have read my first post, you would know that I am aware of the fact that HASS has better performance on any Intel or NUC or whatever.
That’s the reason why I am running HASS as VM in Proxmox.

OFFTOPIC Start:
For the ones who are interested: The host is an Intel I5 3270 with 32GB of RAM, added an LSI 9240i8 Raid card (flashed to a 9211i8) with zfs (zraid5), so 6TB for data available. an 1tb hdd for the VMs itself.
Offtopic End

For the Zwave devices I was thinking about an RPI4 with Zwave2Mqtt more centrally in the house.

And of course I know about the sticks considered to be working, but I have hoped on recommendation which one would be considered to use. Aerotec is the most popular one I assume.

As I wanted to test my config, I decided to buy the Aeotec Gen5 stick anyway and I am using it now with an first gen rpi3.

If I face performance issues on the rpi3, I think I would go for an RockPi, which is obviously as good or even better than an rpi4, referring to the performance.
I have not tested the rockpi 4 with aeotec, but I assume this would work…

So last but not least, many thanks for the replies here :slight_smile:

Great community!!

9

All Z-Wave Plus sticks have the same chipset, so there’s really very little difference between them. It’s mostly cosmetics and branding.

Also, recommendations would require knowing where in the world you are since Z-Wave is regional, and some brands are only available in some regions :wink:

10

Hi Tinkerer,

yeah good point. Totally forgot that the zwave frequencies are different per region and that there are more or less only two manufactures for the chip itself.

Living in Europe, to be honest just a few km away from enschede… :wink:

BR

11

I wonder if a cable like this would play nice with the Pi4? Either using two USB ports for power or using a separate power supply. \

Not sure if the limit is per USB port or for the entire hub.

12

In that case… the ZWave.me UZB1 would be my suggestion. It’s compact, low cost, and works.

13

Thanks Tinkerer!

14

Don’t like the look of that having been on site when two paralleled 24v PSU’s decided “they” were going to control the voltage and burnt each other out (40 amps apiece) fight over 0.03v difference
Smoking ruins resulted

15

The problem with the Raspberry Pi 4 isn’t the current carrying capabilities of the ports, but how the sensing for power delivery is performed. There’s a couple of links referenced earlier that talk to the design defect in the Raspberry Pi4 devices first (still?) shipped that didn’t have individual pull-up resistors on the data lines of the USB host connector, or something similar. And the Aeotec Z-Stick is also a little non-compliant as well, which combines to cause problems.

See https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=245031#p1502030 for more details. You’re probably not going to fix this with a simple cable. The workaround was using a cheap powered USB 2 hub in betwixst the Pi4 and Aeotec stick.

I’m using the Aeotec Z-Stick on my i5 NUC-clone’s USB3 ports (as a USB2 device) without issue, and have had good luck with it.