As with other OSS, the community is the main support and can usually solve almost all problems relatively quickly. It’s free so you can’t expect people to drop everything and immediately resolve your issue.
Look at Linux, huge community who provides support, if people want faster support they pay an organisation that provides it.
How much are you willing to pay for support? I’ll gladly help you out for a decent hourly rate.
You putting things upside down.
If you are part of community which “is the main support and can usually solve almost all problems relatively quickly” then how you can ask for money?
I think it should be good attitude to help users who suffered from bugs and other development mistakes. I’m sure community is not able to help every time because sometimes it requires more experience and internals knowledge which only developers have.
And yes, I expect a help in case the bug is causing 4-day outage of the system
Anyway I’m glad you agree what I’ve wrote about reliability and support.
In the case you pay me money, you can expect a certain ‘quality of service’ and speed of resolution. That’s the difference.
Sure we’re here to help you, but you cannot expect any deadline for an answer whatsoever. We help you because we want to be a supportive community, if that means there’s an answer 7 days later and not within an hour, that’s just how it is.
It’s fair. Next time I will be asked for home automation system I can advice, I will say that in case of HA it’s nothing unexpected to wait days being left without any support with crashed home automation caused by automatic system update.
Hmmm…
since the TO isnt alone there must be something true inside his claim?
i am .not the average joe but the update should be better.
eg:
why does the selfupdater didnt make a snapshot (without the db) before updating?
HA is the 3rd App that i am using and all did go the same route
It was nice and simple then more and more features are added until it was a huge mess that nobody could handle maybe where forked from someone (and the circle starts again)
Use (the reason why my ignition cord is involved) the nice Audio Feature.
You cant use audio on the Host that runs HA anymore unless you add a 3rd party plugin that you find after spending some time.
Why the dev team didnt fix such issues the way Linus does it - go back fix it and after the fix we can discuss if your feature will get back to the distri again?
The fact that there is a “fix” and the fact frenck closed issues about that problem because of the fix - what did this tell you?
The lack of doku…
well if i would add something in my job without adding the doku first - i would be kicked out of the job asap.
Is it the job of the devs to update the doku or the job of someone else?
Who - other than the devs could know about how it should be used?
Is it a wise decision adding featues after features when there is something wrong with the “stable” version?
Coming back to this issue - for me, this does not happen anymore @Andrei_Pop therefore today I have closed the GitHub issue.
Interesting to add that you could also benefit to move to the full HA instead of having only the HA Core experience by moving to this native package. Just bare in mind this is not officially supported but I found it great! The update experience shall be very improved, too, and there is an add-on I found interesting when testing the new version in the background and check if it all works well with your current configuration.
Quick start guide: you basically just stop your current Docker container, disable it for starting at boot, install this package, move the content of your current config directory content to the homeassistant folder this creates. Reboot the new package - done.
Yeah feel free to do this. You realize that this is an open source project right? And you realize that people here in the forum sacrifice their free time to help you? If you expect help within a certain amount of time, use a paid home automation system like KNX or whatever with proper support.
And you realize that with bad publicity no software survives?
btw: open source has nothing to do with quality or support policy. You don’t know what you are talking about
It’s the job of the devs I would say, however the paid devs (core team funded throug Nabu Casa) is only responsible for the core of Home Assistant, most of the integrations are written by other developers who don’t get paid for their work and some of them just don’t want to update the docs and you can’t blame core devs for this in my opinion. It’s a bit like blaming microsoft because a non-microsoft app you installed crashes your system or makes it unstable.
My system is stable since around 2 years, only downtime I had was when I moved from a Pi to a NUC. So I would say the core is stable. Lots of these features you are talking about are integrations added by non-core devs.
Yes, I do.
What initial investment? Your time to configure the system? So you expect a system to just run or get help in a short period of time and all this for free?
You are talking about HA being unreliable/unstable, what is unstable/unreliable in your system? Some specific integrations? Because my system is running stable for around 2 years now and I only had a one day downtime when I moved from a Pi to a NUC (would have been quicker if I had had more experience with Linux etc. at this time). My system consists of something like 900 entities, so you can’t say it’s stable because it’s only a small setup. And I’m not a developer, not working in IT and I’m not fiddling around with HA for hours every day, at least not in my production environment.
Lots of things that break HA or make it unstable are out of the hands of the core-devs. Most integrations are written by unpaid devs in their free time and it’s mostly these integrations that are faulty or break HA. Also sometimes hardware manufacturers close their APIs or do other things that make it impossible to integrate their devices with 3rd party systems.
In particular about recent issue with supervisor.
I meant the need of digging in internet and forums (mostly in obsolete informations) to make something basic working, because lacking proper documentation. Kind of price for free product
hmm well - i dont care 
I only use docker installed with “some” maybe official howto
That means:
homeassistant/amd64-hassio-dns:1
homeassistant/amd64-hassio-supervisor
homeassistant/qemux86-64-homeassistant:0.103.4
You see very minimal - not a single addon - everything else like mqtt ntp smb whatever runs on my Host as hostapplication.
If i would enable my host to update again - i would get some audio and i believe another docker - that breaks my system and i cant get rid of it other than adding another docker…
see eg here RPi4 missing Audio devices after 0.106.5 upgrade · Issue #7 · home-assistant/plugin-audio · GitHub and many others.
If the devs do add addons to the core repo and you cant get rid of them - how not to blaim the devs - btw. that audio addon must have a dev aswell - i didnt knew about a tre where apples and audio addons are grown from
That’s an investment of YOUR time, you are not paying us (with this I mean unpaid devs and forum contributors) any amount of money, so why should we feel obliged to help you? Why do you expect people to help you for free in a certain period of time? I spend a lot of time here on the forum and help other people with their issues as good as I can, because I’m just a person that loves to solve problems and help other people. That’s why I get mad when people expect anything for a free product.
Are you using Nabu Casa?
I suppose you have lost.
This is what I said. HA is not application for end-user, it requires some knowledge and also time to collect all needed information. I accepted that but it doesn’t mean I cannot say that most time needed for complete this process is because incomplete/obsolete documentation, which devs are responsible for
Please read quoted text again… it lacks logic.
Interesting is, you skipped my answer on question what I had problems with. still willing to help?
Yes.
I didn’t talk about add-ons, I talk about integrations to integrate different devices from the different manufacturers into your system. There are 1565 integrations currently and most of them are not written by core-devs and your almost certainly using some of them that are not written by core-devs.
They are all included in Home Assistant Core but they can only possibly break your system if you use them. This means you can’t blame core-devs if for example your Ikea Tradfri (don’t know if it’s written by core-dev or not, just an example) bulbs stop working after an update, it’s probably due to the integration being broken and not the core.
I’ll take a look at this later as this sounds like an issue I could run into in the future as well for a planned project.
What? 
You talked about users expecting the system to work or get help after they invested something, but with invested something you meant their own time. So they didn’t pay anyone any money but expect help because they did some research? What’s the benefit for the person helping them?
True, HA is not there yet. That’s the goal and also the requirement for v1 and they are going heavily in this direction, lots of things have been improved and made more user-friendly in a short amount of time. At this stage, if you expect set and forget, then HA is not for you.
As I explained already here
the core-devs are not responsible for the all docs. Can you point me at points where the documentation is incomplete?
Why does it lack logic? I get mad because I spend my free time because I love to help not because people are expecting something.
Sorry missed that one in all the text. Sure I’m always willing to help if I can. Did you open a topic about your issue here on the forum? If so, send me the link or create a topic and tag me.
And let’s stop the discussion about HA being mature or not or whatever, it leads nowhere, we clearly have different opinions and will never agree. Feel free to call me the loser of this argument, I don’t care.
Anyway I’ll still try to help you with your issue.
? its the other way round…
I have a server primary used as squeezeboxserver - since it runs 24/7 i added HA - so “sound” is the primary case for running the Server. And some “integration” (that somebody adds to the core) makes it useless (for me)
see eg:
Adding that mentioned “addon” “solves” it - but thats not the way i would expect and that there is no “attention” this update breaks your sound and you run into it digging “whats” wrong with my system - finding out its a “integration” → i didnt use or want and i have to add another addon - because i cant get rid of the “integration” you see my point?
/edit: I would expect the dev team to disable that integration - unless its solved and dont close bugs without doing anything because there is already a quick & dirty workaround
remember “why-is-home-assistant-so-crappy-lately” is the name of the topic.
\edit
To your point with M$:
If someone adds Chrome (and label it Edge) into Winblows we have to blaim google not M$ if its not working (bur chrome itself runs fine) ???
That’s the problem. HA should be on a dedicated machine and not together with kodi, squeezebox or whatever. HA supervised is designed to have full control over the host. If you run it together with other things you can run into problems. Do you get the same issue if HA is the only thing running on the machine?
You are using HA supervised in a way it is not intended to be used. You seem too have a lot of knowledge about computers, programming etc. Maybe running Home Assistant Core in Docker may solve your issues, I don’t know.
Of course you always blame google 
But I see what you are trying to say.
But Edge is Chrome now so … 
hmm i think i run something like that in docker - the version (without the issue thats i#ve got running says hassio) and Home Assistant vs. Home Assistant Core - Home Assistant let me think hassio is core
BUT
Be aware that add-ons are only available in regular Home Assistant installations.
looks like i am wrong cause i have a addon store.
Where do i find that HA-Core???