I don’t think I have ever seen a scenario like this on the forum.
I think you are mixing 2 different contexts.
Someone coming to forum asking for help.
Someone writing a feature request or WTH, because they can’t do something in HA.
Those are completely different scenarios. And while I agree sometimes people are too hostile and unnecessarily defensive, at the same time I think the forum is incredibly welcoming and helpful to people that come here for help. Even if they don’t know much about HA or coding.
It was just a generic example of how some threads devolve into a backwards and forwards of one person saying that another should do something and the other person asking how to do it, till the thread collapses I to a toxic heap that’s of no help to any future readers.
It was supposed to be satirical, not an accurate representation.
Mostly when it becomes an argument is because the OP has an attitude.
They demand something or refuse to do something that has been kindly asked about.
My point is that there’s a big difference between such situation happening in WTH or Feature Request topic versus a regular help topic. If someone requests help, the reaction from veteran members of the community are not hostile, or at least I haven’t really seen that anywhere.
It’s different in WTH or Feature Request topics, the whole dynamic is different. I agree there should be less hostility in those threads, but it’s not like a newbie comes for help and gets told HA is not for them.
One of the reasons that there are so many duplicate threads is that new users tend to start new threads rather than join obviously toxic ones.
It’s why I used zha as my example. New users tend to pick zha as it looks simpler to install, but when they have problems the default suggestion is that they swap to an alternative way of doing it. Which entails scrapping everything that they’ve done and going over a lot of old ground with a new system that’s harder to set up than the one that they’re already struggling with.
It’s going to computer forum and saying that you cannot install new game on windows and then having someone becoming enraged when you turn down their suggestion of installing Linux.
I’m only talking about regular forum requests. I’ve seen it a lot with new users who have simple problems like not understanding how to increment numbers.
Someone asks for help, but does not understand the instructions, or uses an incorrect way of describing things, and then gets accused of abusing the system and has the volunteer link pled on them.
I a help request, I not a feature one.
This was common back when the Gmail integration was first introduced. It caught a lot of people out because it only allowed text to be sent, not attachment. So there were multiple threads of users asking why they couldn’t use it for things like emailing log files or backups.
People need to understand that conversations in communities goes both ways. Beginners and experts need to get along, and both sides are not infallible.
If you ask a question, be prepared to get an answer you don’t like. If you don’t like the answer, that’s not an invitation to chastise the person answering your question. Just do not reply. Or a simple “Darn, I was hoping for a different answer”.
If you can’t answer a question without getting frustrated with the topic and/or OP, don’t post in the topic. As experts, we need to understand that beginners typically don’t know keywords. Try to avoid saying OMG RTFM, however it is okay to point to a manual.
I understand this isn’t the easiest thing to do, just asking everyone to try. I think it’s fair enough to say that we’ve all gotten caught up in something that went too far. Just know when to walk away and don’t be afraid to flag posts. Moderators will attempt to be impartial even if the flag is against another moderator.
In regards to WTH posts, people need to understand both sides as well.
Home Assistant is jam packed with features. Many WTHs have been made for existing functionality.
It’s OK for people to post “You can already do this with ABC”. Posts like this are allowed and do not invalidate the WTH. WTH creators need to understand this. Many times, you can have a discussion in the WTH, and revise the post later to account for any comments that transpired.
Also, to expand on the solution checkbox, they are set by the person who created the topic. If OP marks a post as a solution, then they believe the WTH has been solved. That does not mean the WTH has been addressed. WTHs are only fully addressed when the topic is closed by a moderator or admin.
I think I am the one looking to speak entity states and variables with TTS from within the gui interface. I do this now on other platforms simply by surrounding the entity name with a special character that indicates the value of the entity should be inserted. When you say “However much you simplify the UI you will not be able to do a TTS command with a variable in the middle without some kind of syntax.” I don’t understand what you mean so I don’t know enough to not be asking for this.
And that is what the template also does {{ states('sensor.temperature') }}.
But since there should be no coding or syntaxes then we can’t use special characters since that too is syntaxes.
I would suggest some caution with the “You can already do this with ABC” replies. I have had several replies to questions with this type of response only to find that ABC doesn’t come within a million miles of doing what I described and has no relation beyond a similiar name or keyword.
Then you state that and alter your WTH to address it. What you don’t do is get pissed at the person who told you about ABC. Flag the post and move on, if they are being offensive, the post will be removed.
And that would be great if you could just insert it into the TTS text string within the gui. Unfortunately you have to switch to YAML view and once you use a template you can’t always switch back to the visual editor because it doesn’t support templating. This is particularly troublesome if you are using Chime TTS with all of the dropdown TTS options you can adjust on the fly.
We only close and merge duplicates or things that are out of scope (custom integrations, addons, new integrations, etc). If it’s a mistake we can only rectify closed WTHs, merged cannot be undone. Simply flag it if it’s closed and a moderator will look at it closer. We are humans here, mistakes can happen.
I see your point and kind of agree.
But if I use the GUI and I know I need a template somewhere and it’s a action I’m not familiar with all the settings then I add placeholder values in all the fields I need to use then I replace them all with templates after.
But sure templates in fields that’s nice.
I believe the issue is the error line that comes when you forgot a " for example (that exists right? I think I remember that at least)
There are people that make their skills very clear, and I have a lot of time for people seeking honest help, but honestly, after some years here, you become pretty good at spotting yet another routine question being asked. That’s when many give the RTFM answer.
The issue comes in when a new person from the outset critises anything that doesn’t work the way they assumed (because they couldn’t be bothered) and punt their incredible expertise and skills in other or related domains.
In other cases, simple questions are asked, and they get simple answers, only to reject the answer and changing the requirement.
These are the behaviours that makes it very tedious to help.
What often goes with this is a question to the OP to explain why that solution would be less than ideal for them. It’s not always to say it’s the most optimal solution, but it’s at least something. Often (if it’s an FR), you may wait forever to see it implemented (unless you dive in yourself, if possible, which is something many don’t want to hear either), so having something in the meantime is in my view more useful than nothing.
Amazing reponse here by Petro – all of it, even though I’m not quoting it all.
OP is very happy with the 3rd party integration suggested as a solution and is going to use it. However the WTH remains open as it is not the core solution asked for. No gatekeeping here.
Hey @Hellis81 , wanted to ask if you could clarify if you are citing my forecast WTH as an example of a good WTH with a happy ending, or one that was unnecessary because there was a workaround?
Personally, I can see both perspectives. It is indeed possible to graph just the outdoor temp with a simple template sensor, which solved my problem in about five minutes. But that five minute solution came after about 10 months of me being completely stumped and assuming there was no way without a dedicated device or a different weather provider. Which makes me think it likely applies to other users as well.
You actually specifically asked not for a new sensor.
Then you just picked up the goal post and ran with it because in the end you wanted a separate sensor.
No workarounds was presented in the thread.
You got the official way of how to use the attribute in an state based automation and you got the official way to use a template.
Both of these methods are documented so they are not workarounds.
Your thread is a good example of a bad WTH post since what you asked for already exist you just haven’t bother looking for it or asking for it.
This is not something unique in any way. A good chunk of the WTH posts are of things that already exist