There are people that make their skills very clear, and I have a lot of time for people seeking honest help, but honestly, after some years here, you become pretty good at spotting yet another routine question being asked. That’s when many give the RTFM answer.
The issue comes in when a new person from the outset critises anything that doesn’t work the way they assumed (because they couldn’t be bothered) and punt their incredible expertise and skills in other or related domains.
In other cases, simple questions are asked, and they get simple answers, only to reject the answer and changing the requirement.
These are the behaviours that makes it very tedious to help.
What often goes with this is a question to the OP to explain why that solution would be less than ideal for them. It’s not always to say it’s the most optimal solution, but it’s at least something. Often (if it’s an FR), you may wait forever to see it implemented (unless you dive in yourself, if possible, which is something many don’t want to hear either), so having something in the meantime is in my view more useful than nothing.
Amazing reponse here by Petro – all of it, even though I’m not quoting it all.
OP is very happy with the 3rd party integration suggested as a solution and is going to use it. However the WTH remains open as it is not the core solution asked for. No gatekeeping here.
Hey @Hellis81 , wanted to ask if you could clarify if you are citing my forecast WTH as an example of a good WTH with a happy ending, or one that was unnecessary because there was a workaround?
Personally, I can see both perspectives. It is indeed possible to graph just the outdoor temp with a simple template sensor, which solved my problem in about five minutes. But that five minute solution came after about 10 months of me being completely stumped and assuming there was no way without a dedicated device or a different weather provider. Which makes me think it likely applies to other users as well.
You actually specifically asked not for a new sensor.
Then you just picked up the goal post and ran with it because in the end you wanted a separate sensor.
No workarounds was presented in the thread.
You got the official way of how to use the attribute in an state based automation and you got the official way to use a template.
Both of these methods are documented so they are not workarounds.
Your thread is a good example of a bad WTH post since what you asked for already exist you just haven’t bother looking for it or asking for it.
This is not something unique in any way. A good chunk of the WTH posts are of things that already exist
The solution is simple. Don’t allow people to answer any questions on the forums. Just AI chat bots. They all have no feelings and infinite patience.
If you allow humans, you get the current forum: many helpful answers, some of them formulated in a way that is cryptic to the person asking the question. And a few very unreasonable reactions from either side. I’ve been on forums and usenet about very different topics since the mid nineties and it’s never been different.
All in all, my forum experience has been very positive here. Then again, I am a quantum physicist, so maybe I am too close to a rocket scientist to notice the gatekeeping.
Chatbots are way too inaccurate (currently) for the hard technical details, but a nice feature might be a review one for the poster and respondents to improve e.g. tone. It an also take a poster’s history and thus skill level into account and advise the responder based on that.
I wasn’t serious about only allowing chatbots of course. Just a provocative way of saying: this is a normal part of human behavior. We should be aware of it, and correct it where we can (preferably before hitting send) but I don’t expect to avoid it altogether.
Just be patient towards another. We are all unique with different characters and backgrounds.
Some times is hard to write eplaining what your intention is or what you want to achieve.
For example, for me personally it’s difficult to understand how questions/answers is interpreted because english is not my native language.
Sometimes it has also to do of being older (>50, >20 years of domotica enthusiast) then most of the participants and I really do not understand what one is trying to say, so I ask for clarification. This sometimes is misinterpreted as being lazy or lack of research.
IMHO, the objectively truth doesn’t exist, it’s always subjectively to uniqueness of a person.
Just try to understand each other and try to be more empathetic, making the world a little bit more nicer place to live…
It was on Discord. I pointed out im (what I thought to be) a polite manner that having two wait 1/2 a year to get a patch (contribution) reviewed isn’t actually encouraging me to contribute.
Even after telling Petro (IIRC) to calm things down that I have contributed to other projects and know how open source works he - as I perceived it - raged. In the end we both were pissed off.
On other occasions the tone is in very terse. Not necessarily without offering help. But it makes the impression of shop clerks that feel customers are a necessary evil. Which would make sense if they were paid by Nabu Casa. I mean, if I don’t want to help in my free time, why spend time on Discord at all?
In the WTH sections the patterns repeat. Some top rated contributors, but by no means all, respond with quite snarky replies to thread starters.
Perhaps I’m used to smaller communities with smaller amounts of newbies which ask the same (dumb) questions again and again.
Yeah, that’s not how the conversation went at all. You asked a question about how long it takes to develop something and I gave you a realistic answer. You then decided you needed to complain that the process for development unacceptable in multiple messages. You were not polite at all, regardless if you think you were. Which is why you got the reaction you did from multiple people, not just myself.
The very first answer I got wasn’t nice at all. At least I had that impression.
Maybe I’m easy to anger but again you are only blaming me. And that’s what I recall. Absoluely no intention to come to good terms. Should I have bowed or something?
I’d wager it would take you a couple of weeks of development time learning python and config flow (HA stuff). Then when you get a review (could take about 4 to 6 months, little as 2 months), you’ll have to make review changes and catch up w/ the current version.
Only because you said I wasn’t nice and I was gatekeeping. My literal first response to you is above. That’s not gate keeping, I answered your question directly.
Your imediate response was
Learning Python wouldn’t be that bad given that has other use cases (and I assume there are enough resources for beginners). HA is more challenging as I have no clue how good the documentation is.
But having to wait for a review a couple of months is discouraging.
I’ve been involved in OSS projects as an active dev so I know that you folks tend to code what they like and not what maybe in the best interest of the project. Cannot say that I’ve been any different. But neglecting contributions is a bad policy. I thought I could help out a bit into my journey. Thanks for saving me the troubles.
Which is immediately criticizing how HA is ran without any further look and it spiraled from there.
