Airtouch 5 Integration (Aus)

Feature Requests
466

I’m considering a ducted heat pump install using Airtouch5.

Is the Android Tablet / Console a necessary part of the system? I understand there is a separate Main Control Module and Gateway for the heat pump… so I am wondering if the Console is just a tablet running the app, or if there’s more to it?

I’d prefer to mount an iPad on my wall rather than an Android tablet, hence the question.

467

I believe the tablet is required. It has access to settings not exposed in the app (the installer settings) and it is what your app connects to.

I don’t see any reason you couldn’t have the tablet installed in a cupboard or somewhere out of the way and have an iPad with the app installed front and centre though

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468

The tablet(console) does a lot more than just run the app.

The console and main module are required.
I have mentioned to them before and later down the track they will possibly make a type that allows the use of no console and is app only controlled.
That would be a long time away and when stable connections can be achieved.

I have a iPad on the wall which does run the app and the tablet is hidden away elsewhere and isn’t really used.

Either way, it’s more than worth having one of these on a ducted system over not having it.

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469

Hey @smitco is it possible for you to get me re airtouch installation? I’m in Sydney though and understand you are in Qld.

470

Hi Simon,

I can get someone to sort this out for you via Airtouch.
If you mesage me your contact details I will have someone contact you.

471

Hey mate, I’m in Rochedale and having the wifi drop issue.

Will air touch send someone out for free to do the update or do we need to pay for the service? Are you one of the techs they would send out/can I request you. Would love to pick your brain a bit more on my system and what I can do to get the most out of it (once Daikin come and service to find out why the damn heating isn’t working on the 6 month old system :person_facepalming:)

Cheers

472

Hi mate,

Yeah I can just do the update for you under warranty.
I would have had a look at the system also to see what’s going on for you.

Send me your details

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473

Finally got around to installing the custom integration today - didn’t realise how straightforward it was going to be, otherwise I would’ve done it ages ago. Kudos to you @TheNoctambulist for all the work you’ve put into this.
Would love to build in some automations once I understand how the system works a bit better but just using the basic programming on the AT5 for now.
We’re having issues with our system here in Melbourne. Granted the last few morning have literally been freezing, but the unit has not been able to heat up the house until about 9am - even starting the system at 5am.
I’m not sure if anyone here as any advice on what actions I should take (system installed late last year). It’s setup with 2 spill zones, one of which is in the open living area.
I’ve tried only running it with certain zones open to see if that helps but no luck. At least this integration will actually give me the raw data on it now, if anything, for proof.
Any advice would be appreciated, TIA.

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474

Is the outdoor unit freezing-up ? On cold mornings, ours runs for a bit then shuts-down. If I go outside, the coils are a block of ice. The system then melts it away, and starts up again - which slows the whole process of house warming.

475

I haven’t been brave enough to go outside. But yes the system frequently shuts down. I just spoke to the installer and he said I shouldn’t let the house get too cold overnight as the return air feeding into the system is so cold it drastically affects the performance. So I will be running it overnight to keep the living area @ 18 min.
…
$$$

476

Hi, new AirTouch5 user here with Panasonic ducted AC unit in the roof, am reaching out for support due to the installer (Dale Air) seemingly knowing very little about the product or set up and did not manage my expectations well through the sales process about how it works. They also trashed the place during the installation.

Having recently bought a new house in Melbourne, we’ve switched from gas to electric but our bills have shot up, partly because we are currently unable to double glaze or insulate the walls due to ongoing movement under the house from a drainage issue which we need to resolve first.

The installer did set the controller to ‘economy’ mode but initially neglected to adjust the settings on the Panasonic unit itself. We noticed the difference in the performance of the system over summer as soon as we painted the roof a lighter colour, which shows how much it was still being driven by the unit’s own sensor. They have since come back and coded the changes into the unit (and seem to be rushing around trying to do that for all their other rushed installations…) although it doesn’t seem to have made a huge difference so I don’t know if it was successful.

My issues are similar to some of those already described:

  • 3 zones, 9 ducts: main ‘bedroom’ (1 duct), ‘living area’ inc. kitchen (5 ducts), ‘office’ inc. third bedroom and bathroom (3 ducts)
  • Living area arguably has one too many ducts, two are pretty close together
  • Spill zone is set to this large zone which dwarfs the others and results in significant energy usage when it is triggered, often automatically and during the night
  • The force of the air coming through the ducts varies significantly, even within the same zone, particularly office zone which contains the bathroom which is closer to the unit and blasts air out whereas inside the office the air flow is much weaker
  • The bathroom duct is positioned right above the sink so is uncomfortable to stand under, particularly when in cool mode and you’ve just got out of the shower
  • The temperature sensor for that zone is in the office, so it takes a long time to get up to temperature, in the meantime, the bathroom duct is blasting out air uncomfortably. The living area spill zone then regularly kicks in as a result of this zone being below the set temperature
  • The spill zone seems to be stuck on the same setting as the active zone, i.e. if the office is in heat mode then so is the spill zone (rather than just pushing out unheated air which I had thought it would be smart enough to do)
  • The result is even if the living area temperature is set to 18, if the office is set to 19 but its temperature sensor is reading 17, both the office and living area will both be in heat mode until the office reaches 19. Because this takes so long so with the weak air flow in the office, the living area continues to heat way beyond its set point. I’ve woken up in the morning with that zone being as high as 26, 27 degrees before(!)
  • Last night I tried switching the spill zone to the smaller office zone… but sadly the energy usage overnight was still incredibly high. So, I’ve now reached the limit of my capabilities and understanding :frowning:

My questions for next steps:

  1. Is there a way to have the spill zone only blow regular air rather than hot or cold air if that zone is already at the required temperature, i.e run on a different mode to the zone which is still working hard to adjust its temperature?
  2. Would it help to adjust the bathroom duct to be less powerful? Like a damper setting. Or move this one into the laundry room where we are more likely to dry clothes and our comfort doesn’t matter as much as the bathroom. And increase the power of the office duct?
  3. What if we move one of the living area ducts into the laundry room? This is right near the return air, is one that we don’t inhabit overnight or in the evenings, and is where we dry clothes.
  4. Should we add a 4th zone to reduce the size of the spill zone, maybe break out bathroom and laundry? But does a spill zone need a minimum number of ducts?
  5. Should we consider a bypass?
  6. Could the issue be that even if the AC is now on economy or auto mode, when all zones reach temperature or turn off, it reverts back to the sensor in the return air? I just re-read the installer manual and that’s what it seems to be saying. Our return air is in the corridor by the back door so the coldest part of the house and quite separate from the rooms where the other sensors are. There doesn’t seem to be an option on Airtouch to not read from the AC unit in this scenario.
  7. The Airtouch5 installer manual advises NOT to use the sensor in the controller itself to control the AC due to heat impact. What does this mean (and why even allow that option if it’s problematic)? Note that I have concerns about this anyway as it reads 2 degrees differently to the zone sensor which is 30cm away from it(!)

I’m also having some of the morning defrost mode issues as recently described above, seems to be extra noisy too in that mode so not great for the neighbours. Any tips on overnight settings to mitigate it going into that mode, or insulating the outdoor unit (temporarily)?

@steerage250 @smitcoracing FYI as you seem to have helpful and relevant experience :slight_smile:

Thanks for any advice, this one’s been a long-running saga and I’m losing faith in the technology, despite wanting to do the right thing. Obviously having better insulation and energy efficiency will help by the time we get to next winter, but we’re still burning through bills right now.

477

Thank you for your helping the community, I contacted airtouch support via online chat and they sent a tech soon after, updated the console and so far all is good…winning

478

Good stuff, glad it’s sorted!

479

I’m not an expert, and won’t try and tackle all your questions. The spill zone is purely there to prevent you over-pressuring your ductwork by having the fan running with all the dampers closed. If you have ITCs in your zones (individual temperature sensors), then as the zone approaches its set temperature, the damper will slowly close. As all zones get to temperature, the main unit would be blowing into a closed system and you might start to pop joints in the ductwork etc. To prevent this, the system will open the damper in the spill zone so that the total of all zone openings is at least 100%. For example, if you have 2 zones open at 50%, the spill zone will not have to open. If one of them closes, the spill zone will open to 50% so that you have the equivalent of one zone fully open. If all the other zones close, the spill zone will open to 100%.

The other thing is that the spill zone can’t blow different temperature air than any other zones. There is only one temperature of air that leaves the main unit and travels down all ducts. They all get the same temperature of air. All the system can do is to control the amount of air that comes out of each zone (by using the dampers).

Our installer set our main living area as the spill zone. This was totally inappropriate. If that zone had reached temperature, it’s damper would normally close - to stop it going past its setpoint. However, if it is also the spill zone, it might stay open (because other zones haven’t reached their temperature yet) and hence the main living area goes past its setpoint.
So I changed the spill zone to the “ironing /airing room” where we spend little time. The return air also flows straight from this room to the return air grille in the passage outside, so the return air doesn’t pass through any other zones (and upset their temperatures by doing so).

The spill zone opening is not going to result in an increase in energy usage. As explained above, it is just ensuring you have enough dampers open not to overpressure the ductwork. If the spill zone is open, it usually means the system is at temperature - and you question the need for it to be on at that point (other than waiting for the house to (for example) cool down again to the point where it needs to heat again.

We tend not to leave our system on all the time, but run it to make the house comfortable, then turn it off until it needs running again.

I have used HA and the AirTouch integration to calculate you much the spill zone is opening, and if it gets to a big percentage, the system sends a notification to my phone that the “Aircon isn’t doing much” - as a suggestion to consider turning it off.

Have you used (either) Airtouch integration to display the percentage opening of all the zones and watched them as the system heats/cools ? I have found this has provided enormous insight for me as to how the system works.

I also use the sensor in the panel as a zone sensor. It measures differently to my weather station sensor directly above it, but that could be because (since I re-arranged the angle of the vents recently), there is a small amount of air blowing directly at it. It could be that they react differently when in a draught.

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480

Most of above is correct,

The spill zone will increase energy usage because the system conditions a space which may not be used or in use hence why the bypass is much more effective.
Because the bypass opens gradually, this diverted air results in the system itself reducing its running speed.
Bypasses increase comfort and reduce running costs.

Also, spill zones should not be sent to small rooms or outlets as they do not flow enough air to take pressure off the ducting, this is why living rooms are selected with spills or if a bypass is used a large 350 - 400mm duct is used as this will flow 50% at least of the systems air volume

Console sensors should no longer be used as the screen runs too hot on the version 5’s which influences the sensors reading. The AT4’s use to be fine.

481

Just a heads up to everyone, I updated to the latest version of the Airtouch 5 console and is appears to break the home assistant integrations (both built in and the custom integration).

Also appears to stop the physical console and airtouch mobile app from working while the integrations are polling (and failing).

Highly recommended doing the smart thing and not updating.

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482

Thanks for giving us a heads up and attaching logs to the GitHub issue. I’ll take a look at this over the next few days and let you know once there’s an update to test.

@smitcoracing any chance you could get an updated copy of the API docs from Polyaire? I can probably reverse engineer something from the logs, but it’s always easier with a proper specification :slight_smile:

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483

No problems. Happy to do testing with my setup should you need any more logs.

Hopefully official docs come through.

I suspect it is because the new update adds input/output features that may have changed the api slightly.

Weirdly enough, the integrations consistently find the Airtouch 5 through local discovery, can see it is configured as a spill and can see the 4 zones and their names. Just can’t do anything further.

Thanks for taking a look.

484

I have update versions ahead of public release ones and have no issues. Have you tried power cycling your whole ac system, not just the tablet?

@TheNoctambulist i did ask again last week about the api incase it had something for the new aux module and they confirmed the api hasn’t changed, IA I’ve had since the AT5 was released and that was always in the api

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485

I updated too and my integration also stopped working …