HA NeoPool MQTT: integration of Tasmota NeoPool (for Sugar Valley, Hayward/Aquarite, Bayrol devices)

[curzon01]

@alexdelprete

would recommend Sugar Valley products instead of Hayward.

That confused me because Hayward is a rebranding of Sugar Valley, Sugar Valley is the main factory for all these rebrandings

[alexdelprete (Alessandro Del Prete)]

Correct. All the brands simply put Sugar Valley boards in their own box and have a customized firmware with different default and also disabled functionalities.

That’s why I recommend buying directly a Sugar Valley product. But for “normal” users, a rebranded is perfectly fine too.

[eekamouse]

Thanks for the advice, I thought Hayward and Sugar Valley were exactly the same, just a matter of branding for different countries.
And it seems to work with your preconfigured firmware, thanks again.

[eekamouse]

@alexdelprete

for example I can’t have salt readings on mine, I added ORP and pH but I’m missing salt levels. If I knew about Sugar Valley before

I found that the new Hayward AquaRite + NG has salt level measurement included. But anyway, according to the NeoPool integration documentation, it seems that this data is not exposed so you can only read it from the screen. Am I right?

[curzon01]

@eekamouse

But anyway, according to the NeoPool integration documentation, it seems that this data is not exposed so you can only read it from the screen. Am I right?

The Tasmota NeoPool module reads it as “conductivity”, the HA integration yaml should simply be extended to read conductivity. That’s only a few lines of additonal yaml

However, the conductiviy module does not measure the salt content directly, it measures the conductivity of the water and calculates the salt content more or less accurately from this.
The electrolysis cell does the same, but it used the titanium plates within the cell to measure the conductivity, so the measurements vary greatly.

Edit: Precise cell measurement

[eekamouse]

Ok I see, so this must be this value then:

Conductivity (Int) Current conductivity level [%]

So does it mean that this electrolyser uses a dedicated sensor to measure the conductivity, and not the value from the cell? Why this value is expressed in percent and how it is converted ? According to the specs of the AquaRite + NG, it’s displayed on the screen in grams of salt per liter (+/- 10%) . Thanks

[curzon01]

@eekamouse

Conductivity (Int) Current conductivity level [%]

It must be said that this unit is based on information from Sugar Valley’s internal register documents - I have never tested this, as the use of the probe is often questioned and therefore seems to be less widespread. I don’t know anyone who has a system with a conductivity probe, so I have not yet been able to check Sugar Valley’s information on the conductivity value.

@eekamouse

So does it mean that this electrolyser uses a dedicated sensor to measure the conductivity, and not the value from the cell?

This is generally not correct.
All these systems based on Sugar Valley (except special slimmed-down or earlier versions) have a separate connection for a conductivity sensor which you always have to buy separately, it is not included in any set.

But even without the conductivity sensor, you can query the current salt value via one of the menus. To measure the salt concentration, Sugar Valley uses the titanium-coated plates of the electrolytic cell and via the current consumption indirectly measures the conductivity and thus indirectly calcs the salt concentration. Practice has shown that these values are quite inaccurate and this is due to the fact that the titanium-coated plates are also subject to wear and therefore the measured values can fluctuate.

This measurement does not take place continuously, as the electrolysis plates are required for this, but only when this menu item is called up.

@eekamouse

According to the specs of the AquaRite + NG, it’s displayed on the screen in grams of salt per liter (+/- 10%) .

I am sure that this information does not refer to the use of the conductivity probe.
The “measurement of the salt”, as stated in the specification, takes place without a conductivity sensor and is carried out via the plates of the electrolytic cell as described above and looks like this:

By the way: “Target measurement” here does not mean how much salt I want to have in the water , it only allows to calibrate the very inaccurate value of the measurement (with the help of a separate TDS meter).

@eekamouse

Why this value is expressed in percent and how it is converted ?

Because the conductivity is not measured in g/l but only allows conclusions to be drawn. In contrast to the technical unit of conductance % seems to be a possible human-readable unit here.

But as I said, neither the unit of a conductivity probe nor the display when using it could be verified so far. However, I know that the measurement of the salt content and the unit g/l originate from measurements with the electrolysis cell.

[Danton73]

Hi Alex,

I started configuring my Atom S3 for HA, since I now have HA enabled.
Just to know and to help you doing test on this product, I’ve download the user_config_override.h. I suppose this configurate the Atom correctly with the configuration for correct comunication, but hoe to install it in the Atom?
Or I have to do the manually configuration?

[curzon01]

@Danton73

I’ve download the user_config_override.h. I suppose this configurate the Atom correctly with the configuration for correct comunication, but hoe to install it in the Atom?

Not at all. If you read the instructions carefully, it says

When you custom compile your build, you’ll need to use the user_config_override.h

and

NOTE for beginners: if you have no idea about how to custom compile Tasmota, you can use the precompiled files in the firmware folder of the repository.

So you only need this file for the compiler if you compile your own Tasmota build. If you use one of the precompiled binary files, forget this file.

[alexdelprete (Alessandro Del Prete)]

Thanks for backing me up Norbert. Sorry but it’s a very busy period and I have 0 free time these days.

[Danton73]

OK thank you Norbert and thank you Alex, sorry for the disturb.

Well, so far I’ve tried to connect my AtomS3 and Display using a repeater recommended by Alex, but I’m seeing some strange values.
So, first I want configurate the AtomS3 in HA with direct connection to the display port (display disconnected), than I will try again to use the repeater with double connection, Display and Atom.

I’ll let you know if everything works out, and I’ll take some photos that might be helpful to someone else, if I manage to get everything working properly.

[curzon01]

@Danton73

than I will try again to use the repeater with double connection, Display and Atom.

Be aware you can’t use Display and Atom on same physical Display port on the same time, this will not work.

The additional ports of the Sugar Valley systems (WiFi, Extern) are all RS485 Modbus but these are physical different.

[eekamouse]

Thanks for all your clarifications

[Danton73]

@curzon01

homeassistant:
  packages:
    neopool: !include packages/ha-neopool-mqtt-package.yaml

OK Norbert, I will follow your suggestion, only use one device at a time.
One more question, please: I have HA Core but I didn’t understand where I have to save the ha-neopool-mqtt-package.yaml
If I write che post of your window in configuration.yaml show me an error and cannot reboot.

[curzon01]

@Danton73

show me an error and cannot reboot.

and what does the error show, surely there is an error description?

[alexdelprete (Alessandro Del Prete)]

@Danton73

I have HA Core but I didn’t understand where I have to save the ha-neopool-mqtt-package.yaml

You need to create a packages folder, at the same level of www or .storage folder, check here how it should look (all 3 folders at the same level):

After you create the folder, put the pakcage file in there, then in configuration.yaml put this under the homeassistant section:

  packages:
    neopool: !include packages/ha-neopool-mqtt-package.yaml

You should already have the homeassistant section in the configuration.yaml file, so don’t write homeassistant: again. I think that might be your problem.

And another advice: if you want to use HomeAssistant, you need to study it and understand how it works, it’s not a platform that you can use without devoting time into it otherwise you will never make it work properly.

[alexdelprete (Alessandro Del Prete)]

@Danton73

Well, so far I’ve tried to connect my AtomS3 and Display using a repeater recommended by Alex, but I’m seeing some strange values.

I didn’t “recommend” them, because I never used them, I simply looked for rs485 repeaters for case like yours, where there’s only one port and you need multiple devices.

@curzon01

Be aware you can’t use Display and Atom on same physical Display port on the same time, this will not work.

The additional ports of the Sugar Valley systems (WiFi, Extern) are all RS485 Modbus but these are physical different.

What do you mean they are physically different? It’s an RS485 serial bus, but in his case there’s only one port, that’s why we thought about a repeater. I used our NeoPool also on the main display port and it works, so using a repeater should allow connecting other devices on the serial line. What am I missing?

[alexdelprete (Alessandro Del Prete)]

@eekamouse

So does it mean that this electrolyser uses a dedicated sensor to measure the conductivity, and not the value from the cell?

All probes I used determine salt levels (and TDS) from conductivity, since there’s a strong correlation. The salt levels determined in this way is called “practical salinity”. Some Hayward systems support a dedicated COND probe, so they can give you a more accurate salt level, but in my case the system doesn’t support a COND probe, so the system calculates the salt level based on the cell, but it is pretty inaccurate because water temperature and other factors can influence those values. You can read here for a bit of theory on salt/cond/tds levels, etc: Conductivity, Salinity & Total Dissolved Solids - Environmental Measurement Systems

Actually I checked the mainboard of my system and there’s a slot for adding the optional COND probe (there’s a slot for the addin card like for ORP and PH probes) but there’s a missing chip next to it, I think soldering that chip would then unlock the COND probe functionality (you would still need to buy the kit with the probe and the addon card).

[Danton73]

Hi Alex,
I’m learning and studying to use it better.
I have currently configured the entire house (with a 3D structure view), all the appliances, the photovoltaic system… Let’s say I’m learning a little at a time.
I still have problems with the charger of my electric car, the Ocpp server is giving me some trouble… but I’m trying to resolve it.
I started with the swimming pool part and thanks for the indication.
I have reached point 4. I have installed all the devices you indicated from HACS, I still have to insert (where?) the lovelance.yaml file

[alexdelprete (Alessandro Del Prete)]

@Danton73

I have reached point 4. I have installed all the devices you indicated from HACS, I still have to insert (where?) the lovelance.yaml file

I told you where, did you see the above screenshot? you need to create a packages folder, put the file in there, and then in config.yaml you put the package: lines.

Can’t explain it easier than this.