Hello,
We are doing a complete renewal of all electrical wires in a rather small house. Now it’s the time to make a decent and future proof HA integration. Unfortunately, i’m not seeing clear through all te possibilites. Is there someone who already done something similar?
I know there are a lot of possibilities via ESP, zigbee, arduino, but i want something future proof (and to be honest, also non-tech wife proof )
all the info in bullet points:
*about 12 lightpoints
*about 15 switches
*controlled power sockets : nice to have, but not a breaking point.
*sensors: for that i relay on zigbee.
*i’m planning to bring all lightpoints and sockets to a central point (230V)
*i’m planning to use low voltage (24V) push buttons, also brought to the central point.
*I have experience with PLCs (like siemens logo) but i also know it’s a pain in the ass to let it interact with HA (via node red, but it’s hard and unstable)
is there a solution that does the following:
*without HA alive act as a classic installation? (wallbuttons controlling lights.)
*with HA being able to integrate with more intelligence and other (eg. zigbee sensors)
i know it’s a rather complex question, but in fact, i’m looking for something simple and futureproof, that always works (wired, PLC, relais,…) with on top a HA layer for extra functionalities.
any ideas? (anyhow, i’m planning to document the solution, because i think more people are struggling with this…)
I would like to do something similar some day but I’m not ready yet.
I have been looking at the Shelly Pro series relays. They also make a series of sensors that I already use (motion, flood, door/window, etc. Their in-wall relays are popular too.
I measure reliability (“always works”) in mean time between failure (MTBF). Most consumer goods do not have this kind of rating; and if they do, the higher the MTBF the more costly the device. Most devices/sensors used in an industrial environment (not consumer grade) do have these ratings but they can be in the hundreds of dollars range. “Simple” is also something that is relative.
These are available. A quick search produces different options with various price points.
I did not know your budget.
The link was to give you ideas, not to replicate his setup . I thought the use of esp based devices and using opto isolation (think “reliable”) on long low-voltage runs would be useful information.
hi, thanks for your big reply. i really appreciate it!!!
to lighten some things up:
*what do i mean by “future proof”?
Hardware breaks down. that’s a fact. I want to avoid that i choose a path to conclude in 10 years that i won’t be able to replace my hardware because it’s obsolete of no longer available. That’s also why i was thinking about PLC’s. Logo supports modbus, Easye4 is harder to integrate for example. (or am i wrong in this?)
*node-red
maybe it’s my lack of experience, but the last time i tried to make a communication with a LOGO7, i could easy read out the statuses, but i never succeeded to make HA actually push a command to the LOGO. my mistake? I was just wondering if there wasn’t a PLC or controller on the market who has a zigbee/HA integration on one side, and the stability and programmabilities to handle buttons on the other side (with the logic in the controller and not in HA)
*always works:
i know it’s a home, not an industrial complex. MTBF is not a real problem with consumer products, but…i want to avoid that none of the lights can be turned on, because i have a corrupt SD card in a cheap RP. that’s another class of MTBF
*combo zigbee/wired:
right now, i can only find “modules” to be put behind wall sockets. Also, the momentary switch is not a very good requirement either…
*price:
it’s not that it needs to be the cheapest possible. i just made the reflection between the price/output from a LOGO or a WAGO and 35 euro’s…
I understand!
I have personally gone through 30+ years of replacing home automation hardware (original X10, Insteon, etc.). I believed, at that time, that I was choosing a well established long-term solution. It’s really hard to predict the future.
I also see that you have gone down this path before: Siemens logo 8.
PLCs may be more “future proof” but “smart relays” may be more appropriate. Also, as you pointed out, complexity goes up when adding a PLC. So do the potential points of failure.
My lights, alarms, cameras, etc. will continue to run with HA off-line. My automations (all in Node-Red) will not run (obviously) but all “critical” functions of my home will continue to work.
And I use a RPi4 with an SD card. Please see this post about SD Card Reliability.
So the goals are achievable. But the tradeoffs, constraints, and risks are a personal choice.
i know, that why i’m not fond of using PLC’s again. do you have an example of smart relays who speak zigbee and can handle wired momentary push buttons? like i said, i can only find small modules who hide behind a switch, or who can’t handle momentary push. What kind of relays do you use?
My relays are behind the switch. I have not used any DIN rail mounted relays yet. But I did a quick google search “zigbee relay din rail” and found some potential options.
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. he also uses smart switches, something i want to avoid.
. I thought the use of esp based devices and using opto isolation (think “reliable”) on long low-voltage runs would be useful information.