Does the NodeRed addon (assuming is now uses Ingress) have an option to open the WebUI? I think the next version of HA is supposed to give addons the option of configuring to the side menu. The addons moving to Ingress do not require another open port if the developer does not want to provide it.
Does the add-on use Ingress and have a link to the Web UI? The next version of HA is supposed to have an option to have an addon in the left menu.
This is a community forum composed of volunteers. We’re all here to help one another. Rabid complaining and, even worse, defending one’s inexperience, is a disincentive for others to help you.
The main reason eyeballs are attracted to posts like this are because, like a train-wreck, it’s hard to look away.
So far I’ve counted at least two if not three of your colorful complaints have been resolved. People are interested in helping you solve technical problems. If you’re frustrated, go for a walk to cool off, then come back here for friendly technical support.
There is. Take a snapshot before you upgrade.
But they are not “Fatal Changes”. As far as I can tell, you’ve been able to start Home Assistant and it’s working fine. The only things you can’t do are access the Configurator and Node-Red. While that’s certainly frustrating, it’s not fatal to the operation of your system. From what I can tell, Node-Red is still running for you, you just can’t get in to add or modify flows. If you’re in a situation where you urgently need to add or modify something in Node-Red, you probably weren’t in a stable enough spot to upgrade in the first place and should have dealt with that first.
All true. This is a remarkable bunch of volunteers making a great product. I very much appreciate all the hard work and talent.
But in any customer-service industry, the rule of thumb is that for every angry customer who complains, there are 100 more who simply walk away disappointed and will never buy from you again. They’ll also tell all their friends.
I think some consideration for new users would benefit the project immensely.
OK, lesson learned. Research the breaking changes before upgrading. But frankly this is a huge disincentive for new users.
Case in point: I followed the install instructions step by step when I first started. The first real customization in the instructions was to install the Configurator add-on and then add it to an iframe in configuration.yaml.
Those instructions - literally the first experience a new user has with customizing HA - will now fail. Not only were those instructions not updated before breaking them, but a new user would not even know how to interpret the breaking change notifications to know what happened. At that point, they’re still saying “What’s a lovelace? What’s a yaml?” I still have no clue what Ingress is or why I should care, and I’ve been doing this a while now.
It’s only running the configuration checker against the new version, so if none of the breaking changes directly impact the config file, you would not be impacted. For example, on 0.91 the naming convention for some of the dark sky sensors changed. My config file didn’t need to be modified at all to account for this, but I had to make some changes to my TileBoard configuration to accommodate the new sensor names. I think the breaking_changes custom component that @ludeeus is working on should go a long way towards providing a wider view of whether you are impacted by breaking changes.
Despite the fact that OP came in with their hair on fire from the start, calling the software “crap” and saying that “nothing works”, there were multiple replies right off the bat that were nothing but helpful.
Yes, I agree that there’s pieces of the documentation that could use some cleaning up for new users, but there’s always places to go if you’re stuck or unsure what to do. Come post here and people will do their best to help you. Come in and continue to complain and disparage the people who freely give of their time to create and support this software, and you’re going to get some pushback.
Same here. But I´m having to do it every time
I don’t doubt it. However, the community forum isn’t a customer-service industry, no one is buying anything (notwithstanding Nabu Casa’s remote-access service) and the current state of the software isn’t for people who:
The ultimate goal is to reach out to the ‘high reward for little effort’ demographic … but’s it not here yet.
Then this software isn’t for them. Eventually it might be, but not right now.
This is beta software subject to frequent changes. Every time you upgrade, you are testing the new features (perhaps even the old ones if there was a regression error). Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in denial. Definitely a good source of frustration when incorrect perceptions and harsh reality ultimately collide.
I have read people who don’t change version and don’t make any update, unless there is something very useful to them.
So, if you think that breaking changes of this project creates more issue than benefits, there is no reason to update, if you have a version that is working for you.
All these addons, and also the main project, are made by people who spend some of their time to make it better and usable, you can contribute it, too.
I can understand these complains if you’re paying a maintenance subscription fee and you get these kind of issues.
And I can assure you, that also big companies that ask for very high fee for maintenance are not perfect.
The best thing I found in those kind of project is also that if something is broken or is not working like it should, I’m happy to test it and to contribute to make it better.
If you don’t agree with this philosophy, probably you should look for a “out of the shelf” product, not just a project.
This is my personal opinion and I’m not an active contributor of this project (I don’t have enough experience of programming, so sad), but if I can help make it better, I will try.
Thank you Tom - you are my hero.
I was just about to write a response about some being more dedicated than others, some having other priorities than others, some having other goals than others etc. etc. etc. But you totally nailed it.
The 100% dedicated will never be court by surprise. But the 60 % or less dedicated might be
and some could turn away. And what a shame if hassio only will be for the 80-100% dedicated.
Not that I’m not grateful for the help and support I have got. I have responded rapidly and sincerely. And I’m very grateful for each advise I have got - I really am. But if I had seen this headline or title before my “mistake” it would have made me think twice. I get a weekly update from this forum and this one would have been an Eye-opener.
And I’m not a troll just because I take the time to write my experiences and my thoughts. Please read up on all my comments in this tread and your might get an idea what my goals and priorities is.
Or move to a slower moving product like OpenHAB that updates every 6 months with few patches between. I think it is better here as long as we learn to be choosy and research ourselves.
We should be all here to learn but many people, some with their hair on fire, post about general issues without providing details and what they have tried to resolve those issues.
It is sometimes tempting to only try & help those who have at least attempted to resolve an issue before wanting us to “fix” it for them.
Your goal in this thread was explained in its title:
Your contribution to the community was to prevent others from upgrading based on your results that were due to your mistakes. Most threads with inflammatory titles usually turn out this way.
The tiresome, inefficient pattern is:
This is the preferred, efficient pattern:
It can be summarized as TROLL.
Yep - I see this icon - but it tells me nothing:
Who is this “Ingress”? - OK that was a joke…almost.
But if this nice icon can be showed. Then why can the upgrade feature not tell me that - “Now you will get this nice icon in your Add-on and this will mean that your user experience will be changed” - it should say - remove your iFrame-parts in your configuration.yaml file because these links will not work anymore.
Well Node-red is still not working from the Add-on page = Correct Title
Troll or not troll:
More info:
This is what happens in Chrome browser on my PC (Safari works…)
I’m not trying to take sides here, and I certainly don’t want to disparage this project. I’m here, and I want it to succeed.
I spent a career in IT. I’ve done coding, I’ve done customer support, I’ve worked on open-source software, proprietary software, internal company software and interfaces between them. I’ve coded in numerous high-level and low-level languages. I’ve developed and sold my own software, and I’ve developed systems for corporations and volunteer organizations.
In every case, success or failure rested on customer experience.
Let me assure you, you do have customers, and you do need to consider them.
I think a dismissive attitude toward users is the biggest risk this project faces. I don’t think it’s widespread at all, but I’ve encountered enough of it to have some concerns.
I agree and this Ingress change was not even mentioned in the Release Notes. The developers knew, but not the users.
IMO, the core HA team needs to realize the users should be their main market and the developers get second place. Without the users, this project would cease to exist.
They also should explain what Ingress IS. To be as an old IT guy, it was an old database platform.
It wasn’t part of a specific release but it does need a minimum release number (0.91.3) to work.
They did.
That was AFTER the issues when it was released in 0.91.0, breaking users.
